Selective License - Max Occupancy of One!

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  • thelonelandlord
    replied
    Originally posted by ChilliBob View Post
    Update just now, for the benefit of anyone else in this situation.. This has been changed to two people under one household now! Zero explanation as to why it was changed but there you go! So yeah, if anyone else is in this situation do challenge, you never know.
    Hi Chillibob! I am in the same situation in Dagenham too, although in my case they have deemed one room as suitable for someone under 10 only, when previously (ie last time we got the licence) it was fine for an adult, and the senior members of the licensing team are not responding to me. Which councillor did you get in touch with? What did you include in your note to them?

    I agree in a housing crisis, how can they expect families to be kicked out?! They seem to have taken the HMO rules and applied them to the selective licence housing stock.

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  • DPT57
    replied
    Well done Chilibob. It sometimes pays to challenge

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  • landlord-man
    replied
    if the living/kitchen is quite a bit bigger than the bedroom, swap them round - a lounge (where bedroom is) and a bedroom/kitchen (where lounge/kitchen are)

    tenant can always move them back (without you knowing)

    Leave a comment:


  • ChilliBob
    replied
    Update just now, for the benefit of anyone else in this situation.. This has been changed to two people under one household now! Zero explanation as to why it was changed but there you go! So yeah, if anyone else is in this situation do challenge, you never know.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChilliBob
    replied
    Flashback1966,

    40 something (yeah I know the something is kind of a big deal!). We actually went there today (in my case the first time for a couple of years). Still feels comfortable (if compact) for two. Still nothing from the councillor yet so no idea.

    Basically screwed at the moment since it seems we can't sell it because most lenders ask for the ESW1 form (despite it being under 18m. Renting is obviously tricky too as we really need to just rent to an individual.

    Meanwhile mortgage and bills start to rack up now with nothing coming in :/
    ​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • Flashback1966
    replied
    > Big brother knows best. Try Newham for equal madness - I have a small two bed occupied by two sharers for 25 years, my selective licence says I can let to 6 !!!

    It is n't entirely mad. They have allowed you 2 people per bedroom. They have allowed a living room to be used a bedroom. They should have said. Ideally 4 people, but maximum 6 people.

    Lets, say you rent your property to a couple with two kids. If they happen to have a third child, then the license allows them to stay.

    However, there is madness, in your case, if your two sharers, had a family member move in (or even a partner), then it would be 3 people and that would turn it into an HMO. It would be a breach of Selective License and you would need to apply for an HMO license. However, before you can do that, you would also need to apply for Planning Permission, to turn your home an HMO (They are in an area with Article 4 directive). Every Council has their own planning policy, so they may have a blanked bans on using homes as HMOs. Newham has a peculiar system, as they have BOTH Selective and Additional licensing (HMO) schemes.


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  • Flashback1966
    replied
    It seems different councils are assessing the property to their own standards.

    > One bedroom, 9.x sqm, open plan living and kitchen area which is quite a bit bigger and balcony. Obvs bathroom too.

    How many square metres in the entire flat?

    It sounds like a compact one bedroom flat. Is this a modern block? Why did n't the council stop developers building these homes with small bedrooms?.

    If you pretend for a moment, you removed the wall separating the bedroom and living area, then the property would become a studio flat. So I suspect, they will allow two people.






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  • DPT57
    replied
    I don't know whether this Upper Tier Tribunal case might be useful to you: https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2014/01/up...l-on-bedrooms/

    "The legislation does not require that the “bedroom” must be a room primarily intended for sleeping in, such that a lounge or other living room is necessarily precluded from being a bedroom because it can be used for another purpose when it is not being used to be slept in."

    Leave a comment:


  • ChilliBob
    replied
    Thank you, the local councillor seems fairly responsive at the moment so hoping this will at least provide some clarity to the situation, once we know more we could consider this route but I sense my partner might not want to

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  • DPT57
    replied
    You could try speaking to a specialist housing lawyer who might be able to tell you if B&D are exceeding their authority.

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  • 45002
    replied
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com...ce-1-person/p1

    Leave a comment:


  • ChilliBob
    replied
    theartfullodger,

    Cheers man, and for your replies across MSE and the other forum, much appreciated. Yeah we have appealed, and contacted local councillors too. As regards the living area, I believe as its open plan it can't count as a living area (I actually think it would be quite a nice one as it has a balcony, but who cares what I think.

    Bottom line I think we just need justification for the decision to understand it and take it from there.

    Cheers for the replies

    Leave a comment:


  • Hudson01
    replied
    I see this slow slide into form filling as a license (no pun intended) to print money for the councils to use inefficiently, just another small nail in the PRS coffin.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    See also
    https://www.propertytribes.com/selec...127650248.html

    You can presumably (?) appeal to the council - see their website with emails etc...

    https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/private-rented-p...-licensing



    AIUI sleeping capacity can include lounge so measure that - carefully - and get writing, plus involve councillors especially head of licensing committee..



    https://modgov.lbbd.gov.uk/internet/mgCo...spx?ID=189



    Shelter have great detail on overcrowding regulations on their free websites

    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_a...ded_by_law

    - and the real detail



    https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/hou...occupation

    Leave a comment:


  • Section20z
    replied
    Big brother knows best. Try Newham for equal madness - I have a small two bed occupied by two sharers for 25 years, my selective licence says I can let to 6 !!!

    Leave a comment:

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