Used old Section 8 form - cant add Anti Social via online PCOL

[rugbyroom]

Dear Forum,

Had a first part of a hearing for possession today, which went semi OK as Judge has agreed for it to go to next stage, but advised that my Section 8 form was invalid.

I have used the same form for years (Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 194) The Assured Tenancies and Agricultural Occupancies (Forms) Regulations 1997.

Can see that the only change is the actual title for the new form, so the Judge had suggested I seek legal advice.

I clearly don't want to start again as been waiting since January to evict 2 horrible drugsters from my property.

The other issue is that when I have made my application on PCOL I can't see any boxes where I can tick Anti Social Behaviour, as when the form is printed, its shows a blank in the box. I tried a dummy run as concerned that delays may occur where a box can't be ticked but have only been able to add anti social in my notes.

Would be grateful if anyone has heard of older Section 8's being refused or if there is a part on PCOL to add anti social.

Thanks for your time, but thought I would add, as thankfully tenants didn't show, but would hate for others to make the same mistake.

[ash72]

The PCOL uses the form of N5B which does not contain the anti-social aspects as it is the accelerated route for possession. If you want the anti-social aspects as part for your possession you need to fill out the N5 form and send it to the court (you can't do this online).

[KTC]

You can argue that the old form you used is substantially the same to the up to date one, and hence should be considered valid notice by the court. If the court do rule that the notice was invalid however, your only alternative is to ask the court to dispense with the requirements of the notice which it can do if it considers it just and equitable. But in that case, you can't rely on ground 8, so would only be able to rely on grounds 10 and/or 11, which are discretionary. I don't see a court awarding possession on a discretionary ground at the moment given COVID-19.

[jpkeates]

I'd serve notice again in any case.

[rugbyroom]

Thanks for your response JPkeates

Will serve notice again today, but served back in January, would you think I may have to start complete process again, Judge was happy to take to next stage (substantial hearing) but to tell current tenants who are being forced to live in a crack den that tenants may continue living at the property because I served an older form, will certainly send them over the edge.

[HomeLord]

If you serve another section 8 now (after 29 August 2020), the notice period must be at least 6 months. It can be shorter in some cases, for example if you evict them for antisocial behaviour.

If the case involves anti-social behaviour, and ground 14 or ground 7A is being relied upon, then the notice period for those grounds will apply even if other grounds are also being used.

However: Section 8 notices continue to be valid for 12 months after they are served.

[rugbyroom]

Initial grounds were the standard 8,10 and 11 but since serving, tenants have trashed house, use it to deal / smoke drugs, destroyed my furniture etc - ripped off endless toilet seats / cctv system, / fire alarms, other tenants have been forced to leave after being robbed, huge amount of drug evidence and dangerous weapons (Cross Bows - Shanks etc) throughout the property.

If I send another Section 8, can this include new grounds as tenants behaviour has gone from bad to worse since they were served notice, from worse to a nightmare when it seems impossible to evict.

Its not just the fact that I've had no rent all year, I'm trying to sell property as can't deal with the stress with current health issues and getting endless calls from good tenants being forced to live with complete scum.

Thanks for your time and answers.

[KTC]

If the arrears is six months or more, grounds 8, 10, and 11 notice period is four weeks. Ground 7A serious antisocial behaviour (basically court conviction) is also four weeks. There's time limit on how long you have to serve a notice under groun 7A after the court conviction or findings.

[rugbyroom]

Dear Forum,

Back in January / Feb I served a section 8 notice on 2 tenants that stopped paying rent and were very abusive, but I was going to rely on Grounds 8,10,11 as difficult to prove that the tenant threatened to stab me in the back.

Since the time of serving, these two tenants simply trashed my 10 bedroom HMO, have been dealing and openly using drugs throughout the property, have assaulted other tenants that live below or next to them, threatened myself and property manager and feel that its normal to have a large Cross Bow and knives scattered throughout the property.

At my first hearing 4th November, the Judge pointed out that I had used an older version of a Section 8 notice. So I served a new Section 8 notice witness on the 4th November on almost every ground possible - namely anti social behaviour, rent arrears and that tenants destroying my property.

Now that I have a new hearing for the 8th December, I'm worried that if I use the first Section 8 my case could be thrown out or not get possession as it on rental grounds / older Section 8, with arrears being around 11 months.

Or can I use the second Section 8 that I served that will give tenants a months notice between serving and hearing date, but not when Court action will take place, as the Court have already sent details for a hearing which I have received today.

I can't see tenants showing up, but I can see the Courts doing all they can to prevent evictions, even when they mean removing 2 completely horrible individuals who have cause complete hell for the few remaining tenants and myself.

In short, just asking can you Serve another Section 8, using new grounds as they have appeared / happened within the same eviction application.

Many thanks

[jpkeates]

No, you can serve new notices while the legal process continues for an existing notice.
But the hearing is on the original notice you escalated previously - it would be remarkable if the judge would take any notice of a newer notice.

Also, your new notice will need to have a longer period of notice if it uses a lot of grounds, as the shorter notice periods are limited to a small number of grounds only.

[rugbyroom]

Thank you JPKeates,

I used amongst others Grounds 7a (Serious Anti-Social Behaviour) 4 weeks wait time and Grounds 14 (illegal use of property) no wait time.

I've sent photos etc of drug dealing and damage at the property, but if I can't evict because I can't use these new grounds, then I won't get possession on simply having no rent paid as have read that arrears after March are not included in the minimum rental arrears period which I believe needs to be 9 months.

I just feel that I'm being shafted at every level in trying to protect tenants living in fear when the Junkies get High.

[jpkeates]

I'd serve notice on ground 14 alone.
7A won't be met (unless I've missed something).

If the tenants aren't likely to attend court in any case, they're not going to be able to defend themselves, so your evidence might persuade the judge.

If you do that, you can escalate it immediately, so, even if your current case fails on a technicality, you have a back up.
You can always ask the judge to consider the other case if you've raised it, but the chances of them going that are remote (I'd have thought zero).

[theartfullodger]

Why aren't you using s21 and MCoL??

[rugbyroom]

Served Section 8 as tenants started rental arrears once they had moved in and didn't serve Section 21 during lock down as was waiting then waiting then waiting for Courts to start again. Used PCOL for Section 8 but you can't mention on the online version about anti-social tenants, so have had to keep emailing / writing and phoning Court, but can see it all being a complete waste of time as the goal posts change so many times in tenants favour. I will serve Section 21 as well as can't see anything actually happening at my hearing next month. Thanks Artfull

[rugbyroom]

Dear Forum,

Trying to see if there are any changes to wording for Section 8 Grounds, as I know there have been a lot of changes with regards time before Court proceedings can begin.

Any help most welcome, especially for grounds 8,10,11,12 and 14.

Thanks