Difficult Tenants Not Replying Lack of Rent and How to Evict!

[Stew]

Sorry to say this but you sound in a real muddle, weeds and a window problem should have a taken a couple of weeks to resolve, it sounds like you have taken a long time to do a few small jobs, I may be misreading your comments though.

In terms of money owned they are not that far befind yet, you need to find out why they reduced payments first, are they unhappy with your jobs? or have they lost jobs / income.

If for instance you have streams of whatsapp messages with no reply you probably need to withdraw step back and get someone to manage this for you who has more experience in this field. Ask a third party with some experience to help liaise.

If they refuse to let in a gas engineer you will need to report this to the council and also show evidence that you have tried to arrange. A string of whatsapp messages will not be enough in my view.

Hope things improve.

All the best

[SSD1000]

Regarding the Weed and other jobs I am happy to get them fixed The attic window I already have quotes to fit a new one and the bedroom window which is not shutting appropriately. The bathroom panel was damaged and I replaced this in August 2020 when they informed in May 2020. It was not a vital thing i.e. life could still carry on they have water and other essentials running without any issues. I want to help them and be a good LL however there needs to be a communication and understanding on both sides.

Furthermore there was a large tree in the back garden which was going into the neighbours garden they complained to the council who contacted me last year. I notified the council that I want to get this cut down straightaway without any problem. I informed the tenants we need to get the tree cut down however they did not want me to get it cut down. I got the quotes and had workmen ready to come and treat this large old tree. Now this summer surprise surprise the tenants want me to remove the tree branches during a difficult period with Covid and getting hold of any workmen to carry out a job (Tree surgeons are difficult to get hold off during the summer periods as you will know)

My worry is if I send an official letter they will ignore it or say I am harassing them if I outline to them that a Gas Certificate is required by Law. I would also like to mention for the millionth time the rent that is due...

If I send a Section 21 to gain possession it will take 6 months + to evict them thanks to the governments latest 6 months notice period to evict idiots

What worries me is if I do go down the Section 21 process - and it gets to court I do not want a judge to side with them and say such and such repairs have not been carried out - they owe rent and have not given me access lately or replied to my messages. All I would want is possession of my property and land - would you think a judge of this land would deny me this?

I have even said I may sell the property therefore may need to give them notice in August 2020 and they did not like it one bit - I can only afford so much from my contingency fund to keep the property running without the rental payments.

They have said they are working on reduced hours due to Covid however they are receiving benefits and just taking a free ride from my view. They can afford to pay Council Tax and Elec, Gas why not rent? They cant live rent free regardless of repairs or not. When they are not managing the cleanliness of the garden and the house they had rats and I got rid of them professionally. I had the gutters cleaned out without them even complaining and have wanted to get the repairs done. They had rabbits with hutches in the front living room and i informed them that no pets are allowed after the rabbits died. They currently have a dog in the property.

They have the money to decorate and put new flooring down however not enough to pay rent

If I go down a professional route I will look to get legal advice and explain the current situation. I contacted the tenants last night via WhatsApp as this is my only option to inform them that I need to get a Gas Engineer to come and review the Boiler and any other gas appliances. Still awaiting a reply from the idiot I call my tenant. He tends to grow a brain when a new legislation comes through or when he is avoiding the need to pay rent. He is reading the messages however not replying (Is his fingers becoming redundant when I ask for rent and arrangement to do the repairs?) I know a lot of LLs must be in my situation or a similar circumstance its a piss take and then us LLs get taken for idiots.

I do not mind taking courses but I am young and learning as a I progress through the LL world. I have been reading on various legislations and trying to get help where possible.

All I want is the tenants to either pay the due rent of arrears or leave the property without damaging it within the next month and I will forego the rent due as best possible option? What else can I suggest?

[Interlaken]

Something tells me you are not cut out to be a landlord. Nearly everyone of us on here has had troubles with tenants not paying rent and refusing all contact as some time or other and more so now. You need to be patient as in this pandemic there is NO help for landlords and some of us are having trouble getting tenants to pay rent. There is no quick fix. I don't think What'App is a professional way to conduct your relationship with the tenant. They may be playing the non payment game or just don't have the money.
Take it a step at a time.
There is a good chance that a tradesman, not yourself may gain access and get the work done.
Inform the tenants in writing on paper delivered through the letterbox that you have arranged for a gas engineer (give name and company) to call at a set time and date. Send gas engineer along with a set of keys in case they are out. (I take it you have a set that works?) Some may consider this a bit dodgy but I would take that chance for peaceful entry to carry out the work if tenants are not in. This way you have a record that you have tried to get this work done. If you can't get the gas work done then consider contacting HSE (https://www.hse.gov.uk/) - I have used them before to negotiate entry to a property where tenant will not allow the gas safety survey to take place. If all this fails and the boiler breaks down there is your opportunity!

[Jon66]

Op has been advised on here extensively but doesn't appear to be taking any of the advice on board and doesn't have a clue.

4 months to supply and fit a bath panel is pretty poor plus the property doesn't sound in good condition.

I despair of these type of posts. I try to be a good landlord but unprofessional landlords drag the rest of us down.

[SSD1000]

Jon66 - I have got a clue and taking your opinions into account. If the tenant does not give me access to the property to fit a bath panel which they have damaged themselves is not my fault.

Furthermore, I think I am a good landlord as I am pushing ahead with the Gas and Carbon Monoxide checks, I have offered to get repair men around prior to the current lockdown.

On New Years Day in 2018 they had a water leak from the stop cock under the sink. I was there straightaway with my plumber to get the job resolved. The plumber fixed the leak with further callout made to the water company to review the issue outside.

If your trying to be a good landlord good on you however, we all should be a given a chance and opportunity I am sure you was wet behind the ears and didn't graduate from Landlord school within 1 week?

You learn from mistakes and experience that cannot be bought or learned

I have taken the points that have been given on this board

- If I give a Section 21 it will not be accelerated thus there is the condition of not evicting a tenant during a pandemic and a notice of 6 months (as per gov.uk website) since September 2020

- If I give a Section 21 tomorrow I have a valid Gas Certificate that was completed November 2019 and is valid until middle of November 2020

- I do not wish to give a Section 21 as I run the risk of any monies being received from the tenants for the next 6-8 months. Those parasites are receiving Housing benefits as I have already contacted the LA about this and they have informed me of this.

- I do not wish them to leave my house damaged and in a dire state if I give them eviction notice. Its better receiving minimal monies then nothing over a period of time do you not agree?

When the government lift the stupid restrictions of 6 month notice then I could potentially give a notice period under Section 21.

The only thing that bothers me is the judge raising the concern on the following:

My copy of the tenancy agreement issued last October 2019 I have misplaced and lost unfortunately due to moving house in March 2020

The repairs outstanding to the two windows in the property

The garden with the weeds and the the tree even though the tenants did not want this cutting down late last year

I have not given them letters through the post as there is no chance they would reply or bother opening them

I have been lenient and understanding (not sure if this is a good landlord) - I have got the gutters cleared out they were not cleared since the beginning of time, the landlady previously who owned the property never bothered with the tenants, I have reduced the rent arrears they owed me through a gesture of goodwill, Paid for Paint for the property when they wanted to re-decorate, given them documentation when they needed their Housing benefit approved.

They are not good people and I inherited them when I bought the property - to put it in context my gas engineer has been in the industry for 30 years and even he said they are not the nicest people

The Whatsapp messages are now held as evidence in Court and they have a time and date of when they have been sent and date and time of when the recipient has read the message/s

I came for advice and various individuals have given me some (many thanks for that) but I do not need the bashing

All I want is my property back - I have said to the tenants I am happy to set up a payment plan or discuss options with them otherwise they will have to leave the property.

I understand if they damage the property I can put a criminal charge against them going forward if they leave the property in a damaged state when they do leave.

[Stew]

The challenge I see is that you are worried about the legal process of getting them out when other things are out of shape with the property.

It's no good saying "I have even said I may sell the property therefore may need to give them notice in August 2020 and they did not like it one bit - I can only afford so much from my contingency fund to keep the property running without the rental payments."

That is not the case at all, if you sell you cannot force them to move, you will have to sell with them in situ and take a lower price due to your current situation with the tenants as that will be brought up.

You need a third party with experience to help out as it looks like your relationship has broken down. You will probably have to pay for this but it will be money well spent I think.

No one is bashing you, but it seems you don't have the experience to deal with this yourself, so I advise a good agent or other person that you know that can mediate for you.

I personally think if it went to court and there were windows damaged for years the judge would not help you at all.

Find someone who can knock on the door to explain that the gas safe check is needed to ensure the tenants safety (which is the case) and arrange it with them. If however you are at the point where they think you just want the CP12 to start an eviction you will have little luck and your best chance is to contact the council and tell them this so at least it is registered with an official body regarding the refusal to enter to perform the checks.

Also make sure you have the EICR done shortly.

All the best,,, no one is trying to bash you but it's obvious you are struggling, being a landlord is not easy for everything so find someone to help who can mediate without it getting heated,,, any threat made to them will just backfire on you at this time with the world as it is.....

Try and rebuild the relationship and get some money flowing in the correct directionm,,, or apply for managed payments (that is the Housing element of UB to be paid direct to you, you can do that online)

I have no legal training just my personal view.

All the best

[SSD1000]

Stew,

Thanks mate for the advice

I did look down the assisted payment option from Housing Benefit however they will need to clear it with the tenant am I correct in this? If thats the case and the tenant disagrees with this it leaves me with an even more annoyed tenant and potentially no payment

I am more than happy to get the repairs done - it is my asset at the end of the day -

Regarding getting a professional mediator whom can help - do you know of any websites or individuals that could step in or of certain professions? Could I get another landlord to help to mediate?

I will be looking to send a letter to the tenants (outlining the Gas certificate check)

Regarding the EICR I have just looked at the Gov.uk website

"3. Which rented properties do the Electrical Safety Regulations apply to?

The regulations came into force on 1 June 2020, they apply to new tenancies from 1 July 2020 and existing tenancies from 1 April 2021. The relevant date for determining when the new requirements apply is the date on which the tenancy is granted. A new tenancy is one that was granted on or after 1 June 2020."

I think I am ok for the EICR currently but will endeveour to get this done going forward with any new tenancies. I just want to be within regulations and not burn bridges. I am trying to be a good landlord and provide a service as this is what we are trying to provide at the end of the day

Thanks for your advice again

[Jon66]

I think I am ok for the EICR currently but will endeveour (sic) to get this done going forward with any new tenancies.

This is what I mean about your attitude.

If you wait to get the electrical checks done you will run out of time. Can you not see that if the requirement for electrical safety cert is for this to be carried out by 1st April 2021, electricians will be exceptionally busy. Not to mention having to allow time for any remedial work.

You will not get your tenants out by April 21 because you have to give 6m notice so get it done now.

You will run out of time . . . 🙄

[Jon66]

I'm beginning to think there should be a landlord register and an exam system before you are allowed to become a landlord of an AST in the PRS . . ..

[Stew]

SSD1000 I've been a landlord for a few years now and self manage, I do my own repairs, viewings etc and it's a balancing act to keep things moving along smoothly.

People are making valid suggestions on here like EICR's etc and you think from a quick google that you know the answer, but I'm sorry to tell you but your understanding is not correct. Next year you will be in breach of that requirements.... in doing this yourself you need to be prepared to put in the effort to understand the regs and make sure you are keeping on top of it.... on top of the deadline next year if your tenant had an AST and this moved to a rolling periodic in approx the last six months that is classed as a new tenancy so you may already been in breach of that requirement

Sending letters that can be interpreted as being in the wrong tone or threats will really backfire, statements such as if you don't pay I'll sell and you will need to leave cannot be enforced. This is especially true in the current times. The government has no interest in supporting you but equally wants you to fulfill your obligations. If you evict someone it only gives them more problems as they may have to provide emergency housing...... you have to help yourself, start reading and start educating yourself

As there are so many issues, it's hard to see vihat the real issues here and why the tenants are not paying, are they unhappy with your standard of repair etc etc

I doubt will find what your looking for free of charge, in my mind you have 3 or 4 options or combinations

1) Join one of the associations NRLA for advice and help but also put in the legwork,,,get someone to check all communications make sure they sound fair and reasonable (follow with number (2)).
2) Get someone, a friend, a trademan who you are friendly with BUT who has good communication skills to liaise on your behalf, get them to knock on the door and get a list of problems with the property from the occupants, then assure them you will rectify, give timescales.
3) Pass the property to an agent who is experienced with these matters, but pick your agent carefully.
4) Use one of the firms like those that advertise on the side Landlord Action to regain control of your property

But going on the way you are, it just seems the learning curve is too long for you going it alone with what you need help with at the moment.

You need to get your tenants back on side so you can start to address some of the repairs and legal obligations and hope they will start to pay something, once you start to repair things you can start to discuss partial payments etc.

I believe when so many months behind the managed payments can be forcefully changed to yourself, I think this is 2 months minimum but you need to fully investigate this,,,, when you get a rejection you can then put in another case as the debt will be more, others on here have managed to get the payment made direct to themselves. Read and learn and read some more then make a plan

Just my personal view

All the best

[SSD1000]

Stew,

Thanks for the advice

Going of the idea of getting in an agent are there specialised letting agents who deal with these situations?

Do I need to inform them of the difficult tenant and what the current situation is? I am worried that they will just turnaround and say no they do not want to manage the property due to circumstances etc (any experience from yourselves on this would be handy)

Alternatively, I have a friend who is a good communicator and experienced I could get a letter ready highlighting the need to do electric and gas checks and also ask the tenants for a payment plan going forward alongside when they want the repairs completed to the property?

Going forward this would help me with any queries when it comes to evicting them if need be?

[Hudson01]

Going forward this would help me with any queries when it comes to evicting them if need be?

If all your '' ducks '' are not in a row in terms of electrical safety checks and other legislation changes then you will not be able to evict them..... take the advice given here if you ever want to see your property back, and yes tell your preferred agent EVERYTHING about the relationship breakdown between yourself and the tenants, they have to know everything..... and yes, they may decline to help.

[Stew]

Agree with Hudson,,,, most agents will not want to take it on for the percentage of the non existent rent they will get,,,,

You mention

"Alternatively, I have a friend who is a good communicator and experienced I could get a letter ready highlighting the need to do electric and gas checks and also ask the tenants for a payment plan going forward alongside when they want the repairs completed to the property?"

forgot the letters,,,, forget mentioning the word eviction on here. You need something from them, they don't want anything from you except to live in your house, they are doing that free for now and it's not under your control.

If I was you.... personally if your friend is a good communicator,,,,, I would get him/her to knock on the door, sometimes if there is a lady in the house a woman friend may be best...

Send them with a peace offering some chocolates/biscuits,,,, let them introduce by saying you are stuggling to understand the concerns and repairs that are needed due to "your" lack of knowlege in the area and have asked them to help work on your behalf..

Don't tell them to try and entry the property just ask the occupants to prepare a list of jobs they feel are needing work and agree a time to go back to go through the list with them and agree priority.

At that point your friend may get into the house,,, at that point they can mention about the gas check and it's priority....

If they just shut the door or won't answer then you will need an expert and expect to pay for that service

You need to get lines of communication open again...... and you need to understand if they just have a problem with you and how you manage things, or they are trying to live for free and know the system.

If in the past they have paid for years without many problems then its unlikley to be the later and more likely the way you are managing things maybe combined with finance problems.

Your friend needs to tread very carefully, your friend needs to be viewed as being on the side of the tenants to get anywhere from this point onwards. Remember landlords have little on there side at this point in time,,,,, you need to understand that and work with what you have.

They have paid in the past, they are not occupants that moved in and failed to pay month two, stop thinking about getting them out and more about turning this around, resolving the issues and hopefully repairing the relationship and getting rent flowing again from hopefully them or from UB.

Just my personal advice I'm not legally trained,

Hope things improve

All the best

[SSD1000]

Thanks Stew for the advice

this is a letter I have drafted to send them but having read your response I might get a friend (male) to go and speak to them and get them on side and follow your notion of view.

One thing to point out they did struggle to pay for 2 months to pay rent to the previous landlady when I looked at the books originally back in 2018.

The letter I have prep'd is as follows:

"Dear XXXXXXX & XXXXXX

Please can you review the following and respond at your earliest convenience either through letter or text message/phone call.

I am asking for your permission regarding the following:

Gas and Electrical Checks

The Yearly Gas Service and Check is due (Gas Safe).

The Engineer will be in the area on Saturday 7^th November 2020

Please can you respond to the above at your earliest convenience and I will get the work scheduled.

I will ensure the Gas Engineer takes precautions in relation to the Covid-19 pandemic and follows strict guidelines

I also require permission from you to allow a Qualified Electrician to carry out a EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) on the property as part of regulations from June 2020.

Please can you advise when you are available for this Engineer to come and carry out the checks as necessary.

Carbon Monoxide Alarm Checks

As part of regular checks I need to ensure that the Carbon Monoxide alarms fitted in the property are fully functioning and service any particulars if required. Please advise when I can come and do this. I will ensure all PPE safety equipment is worn and I follow guidelines as required

Repairs

Furthermore the repairs need to be viewed by a builder/workman. Can you please advise the best day and time to take place regarding the 2 windows in the property.

Rent Arrears

Your current arrears are as follows

Total balance outstanding to date £1,295
This does not include the upcoming period of 18/10/2020 – 17/11/2020

I have also attached a list of all the payments received from yourselves to date from January 2020 – pre Covid-19 (see below)

18/01/2020 - £525
19/02/2020 – £525
23/03/2020 - £100
03/04/2020 - £50
01/05/2020 - £100
15/05/2020 - £100
04/06/2020 - £100
16/06/2020 - £100
18/06/2020 - £300
20/06/2020 - £200
26/06/2020 - £100
17/07/2020 - £535
19/08/2020 - £350
25/08/2020 - £70
31/08/2020 - £115
03/10/2020 - £300
15/10/2020 - £235

Total Received £3,805

Rent for 10 Months is £525 x 10 = £5250
Outstanding to Date: £1445 (5250-3805)
Minus £150 (Goodwill Gesture August 2020)

Total to End of October is £1,295


I understand we are currently in a difficult period with work and income however I am more than happy to work with you and also the Housing Benefits team to help yourselves. I know it is difficult but please advise on how we can work to reduce the deficit in rent arrears going forward

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to yourselves and happy to work around your needs and requirements. Please contact me at your earliest convenience to book in the repairs and the yearly checks."


Let me know your thoughts and the course of action i think I may follow is as follows:

1 Get a friend to be the mediator or send the above letter

2 Wait on a reply 5 Days would be sufficient I would think?

3 If no reply with letter press ahead with communicating with an Agent or Solicitor

4 Alternatively if no success with the Friend then proceed with option 3

5 Hope that something can be put in place and get motions in wheel to get repairs done and get some income flowing and more importantly get the regulation checks done to standard

Thanks again

[Jon66]

Too much information.

SSD1000 how much contact have you had with the tenants since 1st January?