Served S21 (Going to hearing) alongside a CCJ for 3 months arrears

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Served S21 (Going to hearing) alongside a CCJ for 3 months arrears

    S21 overview
    Submitted a S21 to the courts in August, to hear that the defendant posted a defence 7th September and not within the 14 day deadline provided. Despite this, I was shocked to see that the defence still stands and that the judge has called us into a hearing.

    Reading online a S21 via N5B should rarely go to hearing unless an issue with paperwork or the defendant issues a strong defence. The court tell me that it is standard practice to go to a hearing if the defendant posts a defence, especially given the current climate. Is this what other people are seeing?

    I've also had a call from the housing officer of the local council. I'm told that the defendant has reached out to them for a council house. They asked off record how much tenant was in arrears and then proceeded to tell me that they had a warrant out for tenant for council tax and that he had previously done this to other landlords in the area. Confused as to how they would get the latter part of this information about it effecting over landlords, as nothing seems to come up on reference checks?

    I'd asked housing officer if they would consider making a statement to the judge to help with the hearing but they declined. I'm not concerned the case will get thrown out at hearing and I have to re-serve the revised 6 month notice.

    CCJ overview
    Aside from the S21, I have separately applied for a CCJ. Defendant agreed that he owed 3 months rent and settled via the online claim at £100 repayment per month. I thought this was a poor show and asked for the judge to review, with the hope of tenant paying more than £100 a month and to clear the debt in 2020 not by end of 2021....

    You guessed it, judge has determined that the defendant has a negative disposable income and is reliant on Universal Credit (only since lockdown covid19) and has ruled that he only has to pay £50 a month towards the debt.

    Should I look to seek redetermination of this and if so, what should I focus on to try and get the money back quicker? I sense the danger is that I seek redetermination and the amount he has to repay reduces even further.....

    TLDR: Served a S21 and CCJ with mixed results

    Some help from those that have experienced this would be most helpful, from a landlord barely managing to keep his head above water...!


    #2
    If the defendant posted a defence, I'd expect a hearing.
    You should be given a copy of the defence ahead of the hearing so you can prepare some kind of response.

    Bad luck with the appeal against the offer.
    I wouldn't do that again - your experience is common.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      JPKeates, R.E. S21

      If the hearing has been drawn up, does that mean I've got the all-clear on the documentation I provided? I filled out the forms myself as I couldn't afford solicitors to do them for me and I thought I could put the furlough time off to good use. I took the utmost care but who knows.

      The defence was really half-assed and centres around him going through a divorce, losing his job, not having money to pay, threats from the landlord etc. He acknowledges that he has received copies of all of the paperwork.

      What questions are normally asked during the hearing to defendant/claimant?

      Thanks in advance..

      Comment


        #4
        Hi there, A few things to unpack here

        1. If they filed a Defence, even late, I'd fully expect it to be heard. Very, very rarely would a Judge not allow a defence to come in due to it not being filed on time (usually only after the 2nd or 3rd hearing/order). Unless they're feeling particularly strict.

        2. S21 is a faultless eviction, which usually means there is no Defence one can file. However if the Defendant raises one, it should be heard. I'd hope you'd agree that if you were facing homelessness and felt you had a genuine claim, a Judge would not simply deny you the chance to put it forward? If you've done everything right, you have 0 to worry about, the Judge MUST rule in your favor.

        3. They're fishing for info for a Defence, do not engage. Just tell them you are pursuing eviction via S21 and arrears in smallclaims or MCOL, don't give them details - you don't have to - they're not the Courts!

        4. CCJ - well, you did yourself in there lol I'd have thought £100 pretty good going from anyone who claims benefits. Appealing the £50/mo ruling would be very difficult and costly, unless you went LiP and they didn't oppose the appeal (which seems unlikely as they've even opposed a s21). Plus you'd need the sitting Judge's permission to appeal, which if wasn't given on the Order you'd need to apply for, another £100 right there lol

        Comment


          #5
          EeZee,

          No, not at all, it means a hearing has been scheduled, that's all. A Judge will review all the docs and assuming it's in order, will grant possession (has to by law). But use this time to double-check everything, and if anything isn't in order, send updated docs to the Court and Defendant before you go, or you risk them not being admitted.

          That's not a legal defence to a S21 and will be thrown out very quickly. In fact, you could apply to have his Defence struck out as it's without merit, but again that's another £100 and probably not worth the 10 minute phone call your hearing is likely to be...

          Comment


            #6
            Try testing your s21 notice here.
            https://www.s21check.com/start

            Or here.
            https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

            The nearly legal one is likely to be right if there's any discrepancy, but the online one is very much easier to use.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              The only flight in the oitment I see right now is the DPS deposit protected scheme.

              Tenant moved in December 2018.

              DPS Certificate states 31st January 2019 (outside of 30 days) but also reads that the tenancy didn't begin until December 2019.....

              It would seem the letting agent not only screwed me over with a bad tenant but also has issues with their data entry.

              Whilst I think this would have been flagged by now, am I best just returning deposit?

              Should I ask tenant to re-register deposit with me, I could say that I've changed letting agent which is the reason for this change..?

              Cheers,

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                Try testing your s21 notice here.
                https://www.s21check.com/start

                Or here.
                https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

                The nearly legal one is likely to be right if there's any discrepancy, but the online one is very much easier to use.
                Really useful share, thank you

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by EeZee View Post
                  The only flight in the oitment I see right now is the DPS deposit protected scheme.

                  Tenant moved in December 2018.

                  DPS Certificate states 31st January 2019 (outside of 30 days) but also reads that the tenancy didn't begin until December 2019.....
                  That's not a "fly in the ointment", that's your s21 dead in the water.
                  It's not valid and won't proceed.

                  You can't fix that by returning the deposit.
                  You'd have to return the deposit and serve a new s21 notice.

                  I'd cancel the claim and start again.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    He's right, the Judge will turf that after a cursory glance, your s21 is invalid, as far as the law is concerned you didn't protect the deposit. Agents fault or not, that's your battleship sunk.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Would the case have gotten this far? A judge has already reviewed it?

                      Why would they wait to set a hearing, to then throw the case out?

                      Am I not able to refund the DPS scheme deposit?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A Judge hasn't reviewed a thing, you issued a claim, the Defendant has issued a defence, a date has been set, that's all.

                        You can chance it and see if it gets through, but you'd be on the hook for costs if the defendant claimed any and you "lost" due to the error.

                        You can:
                        1. Return the deposit
                        2. Re-issue the s21
                        3. Issue a fresh claim after the notice period

                        ​​​​​​

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'm led to believe the judge has reviewed it, and upon reviewing the case + defence called in a hearing.

                          The 6 month notice will cripple my finances and I'm probably best chancing my luck at this stage.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You are wrong in that assumption, let me assure you. A Judge will set a hearing date, that is all, they will not review documents prior to the hearing. It is not on them to ensure your paperwork is in order.

                            As it stands, you have no valid s21, if the Defendant raises it, or the Judge spots it (wholly likely, this is what they do), your claim will be tossed and you'll have costs awarded against you, not to mention a potential fine.

                            But it is, as they say, your funeral.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I also think that the judge reviewed the case. December is not a good month to protect the deposit therefore there was a delay. I would stick to the hearing if it is soon.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X