Possession Order without Gas Safety Certificate

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    Possession Order without Gas Safety Certificate

    Hello,

    I some a difficult tenant that is over £7,000 in arrears.

    I have issued a Section 8 and filed for a possession order. A hearing date has been set for 06/10/20.

    My concern is that I do not have a valid Gas Safe Certificate. By being unorganised, I've overlooked it. I'm worried that my case will now not be heard or that the court may allow the tenants to stay longer.

    They have lived there for over two years without it.

    I have tried to have one done this week but the tenants say they are self isolating and won't let me access the property. I think they realise there is no gas safe and will try to use it against me. I will try and get it done before the hearing but it's unlikely.

    I will keep text messages from the tenant denying me access as evidence but that won't protect me from the previous 2 years without it.

    Does anyone have any idea of what I can expect?

    I have spoken with my local Landlord Association and they are unsure how the judge will react but warned me that I could face a severe fine.

    I realise how silly I have been but hindsight won't help.

    Any advice or knowledge would be appreciated.

    Many thanks

    #2
    Lack of GSC render a s21 notice invalid, it does not render a s8 invalid. If a mandatory s8 ground is satisifed, then a possession order must be granted.

    The lack of GSC itself is a criminal offence, I'm not aware of any civil remedy available to a tenant, aside from maybe an attempted claim for disrepair. If your s8 ground is arrears, then any award for disrepair would be set off against the arrears first.

    Only advice is to try again after 2 weeks (i.e. self isolation period), keep records, and be honest to the court.
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you, that's helpful 🙂

      Comment


        #4
        | would imagine the lack of a certificate could be construed as negligence,and tenants may use threat of reference to HSE in certain circumstances.Getting a gas cert now underlines your oversight.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
          Getting a gas cert now underlines your oversight.
          But the alternative of not getting it now isn't any better and I would suggest even worse. Mistakes happen, that's life.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ChrisDennison View Post

            But the alternative of not getting it now isn't any better and I would suggest even worse. Mistakes happen, that's life.
            So you advocate getting a test and then evicting tenants-seems the epitome of futility and making empty gestures!

            Comment


              #7
              No I'm advocating getting the test done as soon as possible. Irrespective of what happens with the tenants. The eviction of them just happens to run in parallel.

              What is your suggestion? Waiting with the GSC until after the tenants have been removed? That's not only dangerous but also doesn't give any benefit because the OP has already asked them for access so it is obvious that he is aware this needs doing.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
                So you advocate getting a test and then evicting tenants-seems the epitome of futility and making empty gestures!
                The landlord's obligations to the tenant, and requirement to comply with the law are independent of any pending possession proceedings. The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 requires the landlord to have such test done every 12 months, and it is an offence with a maximum sentence of 2 years imprisonment and unlimited fines for non-compliance. When you become aware you haven't been doing something you're legally required to do, you fix it, not put it off further to a point convenient for you.
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes,and I have devised a system where it is hard to overlook this vital task.The OP has placed themselves in a dangerous place,even risking manslaughter.His concern seems to be more about the legal position than tenant safety..They wrote
                  "'Ive overlooked it. I'm worried that my case will now not be heard or that the court may allow the tenants to stay longer"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The tenant has a dilemma, why would you want to stay longer than you have to when the landlord is clearly not sufficiently concerned with their safety and the property may be unsafe?
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

                      Yes,and I have devised a system where it is hard to overlook this vital task.The OP has placed themselves in a dangerous place,even risking manslaughter.His concern seems to be more about the legal position than tenant safety..They wrote
                      "'Ive overlooked it. I'm worried that my case will now not be heard or that the court may allow the tenants to stay longer"
                      So how does this comment of yours then link to your comment to me:

                      Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

                      So you advocate getting a test and then evicting tenants-seems the epitome of futility and making empty gestures!
                      ?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I didn't have my home boiler checked under a gas safety type regime for years and years, doesn't make it dangerous. It was an old Potterton, no fan, just the simple basic model they stopped making in the early 90s. When i did bring a plumber in he said it was all clean as a whistle. The annual GSC is in my opinion overkill but don't quote me in court

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You are (relatively) free to endanger yourself, but as a landlord you have a duty to make sure the property you are letting to your tenant is safe. That's the difference.
                          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Your tenants should not have moved in without gas certificate. If they ask you in court just say when you try to arrange for it to be done they dont let you in without specifying the years. S8 (8) is mandatory.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Perce View Post
                              Your tenants should not have moved in without gas certificate. If they ask you in court just say when you try to arrange for it to be done they dont let you in without specifying the years. S8 (8) is mandatory.
                              Well you are an optimist,and fancy blaming tenants!

                              Comment

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