Help with Possession Order Form/Process

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Help with Possession Order Form/Process

    Hi there,

    Not sure if this is the right place to help, but I have spent countless hours on the phone to CAB, Shelter, County Court but am getting nowhere.

    My situation - I have an ex partner, who is completely refusing to move out of a property that i own. The main reason being that she has too much stuff that won't fit in her flat, which is obviously not my problem. This might seem trivial, however, this is a situation that has been going on for nearly 2 years, and she just won't leave. There's no tenancy agreement, no rent payments, no contribution to mortgage, nothing, which I believe makes her an excluded tenant. I cannot do a peaceable eviction to change the locks, as she never leaves the house. Also the house is full from floor to ceiling with a huge amount of her belongings, which i want rid of too, and have been advised by Shelter i have to be very careful, as she could sue me for interference of goods.

    I have tried everything and have now reached the point of legal action via eviction. I'm advised I need to complete a possession order, however, never having done this, I could do with a little hand holding through the process.

    I thought i needed form N5B (linked below), which seems to be a possession order without rent arrears. However the form asks numerous questions about the tenancy agreement, none of which is applicable here, hence i can't fill out very much of the form, with the information it is asking for.

    Can anyone help, and tell me if i'm on the right or wrong track here? Is this the correct route for eviction and if so, is this the correct form?

    Are there any organisations that can help with the process without having to pay huge legal fees?

    TIA for any help.
    Form N5B England: Claim possession of a property located wholly in England (accelerated procedure).

    #2
    You need to get a solicitor to help you.
    If there's no rent being paid, she's almost certainly a trespasser and you can simply turn up and remove her (as long as there's no breach of the peace).
    It might be prudent to tell the police what you're doing in advance.

    But you want to run that past a legal professional first.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
      ....you can simply turn up and remove her.
      I guess that's my problem. How do I actually remove her if she doesn't want to leave? I can't change the locks, as she literally never leaves the house.

      The advise i've had from Shelter in recent days, was to apply for a Possession Order. Only on trying to start that process it doesn't seem to apply to me, because as you say, she isn't a tenant, and all the questions on the form, are about tenancy.

      I was trying to avoid a solicitor due to the costs involved. Do i have any grounds for her to have to cover the legal costs, given it is her actions that has necessitated the legal action?

      Comment


        #4
        You could try and claim the costs back, but I'm not confident that you'd be successful.
        You will to spend some money, otherwise you're not going to get your property back - this isn't something you can do for free, as you're finding out.
        Essentially I think you can probably go and throw your ex partner out of your property - but if you aren't able to do that (and I can understand that), you need to find someone who can.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by sparkey164 View Post
          I was trying to avoid a solicitor due to the costs involved.
          It sounds like there are a number of complicating factors and unknowns that probably make this unsuitable for forum advice and suggest that a solicitor is the best approach.
          • Your ex-partner has a flat but s living in one of your properties. Why would that be?
          • Were you ever married or in a civil partnership?
          • How did she start living in the property?
          • Has she ever made any contributions?

          Comment


            #6
            I think this here is a nice summary:

            A land/property owner may find it relatively simple to remove a group of travellers from open land, as they will be able to exercise their Common Law right to remove travellers using reasonable force (subject to not causing a breach of the peace). However, at the other end of the spectrum is where you have to remove a trespasser or squatter from a residential property who entered or remained on the property with the authority of someone who had the right to occupy the property at that time. Here you will need to ensure that you obtain a possession order against the occupant before evicting them, otherwise you may find yourself having committed a civil and criminal offence of unlawful eviction; evicting trespassers/squatters in this way can be complicated and is likely to take 3-4 months minimum.
            Courtesy of jmw solicitors, https://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-b...operty-or-land

            It sounds as if you indeed need a possession order, but none against a former tenant.

            You’ll have to speak to a solicitor. You might well be able to recover your costs against the occupier, depending on which track this court case ends up in.

            Comment


              #7
              Just from a little reading...(e.g., https://www.landlordsguild.com/tresp...ion-procedure/ )

              It's form N5 (not N5B) and N121 for a standard possession claim for trespass.
              (and you are not looking for an interim possession order, as that is only for squatters who had no permission to enter the premises).

              There must be people around with experience...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MdeB View Post

                It sounds like there are a number of complicating factors and unknowns that probably make this unsuitable for forum advice and suggest that a solicitor is the best approach.
                • Your ex-partner has a flat but s living in one of your properties. Why would that be?
                  -------The main reason is she has accumulated too much stuff. I'm talking compulsive shopping and **serious** hoarding, and she is refusing to deal with it.
                • Were you ever married or in a civil partnership?
                  -------No
                • How did she start living in the property?
                  -------She gradually moved in, when we were in a relationship. No formal agreement was ever made.
                • Has she ever made any contributions?
                  -------Very occasionally towards bills when constantly reminded she was living there for nothing, but substantially less than 50%. Nothing towards rent or mortgage.
                Thanks for your reply MdeB. Answers inline. Yes its an unusual and extremely stressful situation. I'm really at my wits end to know what to do. I was trying to avoid the expense of solicitors fees, but its starting to look like I have no choice :-(

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ted.E.Bear View Post
                  Just from a little reading...(e.g., https://www.landlordsguild.com/tresp...ion-procedure/ )

                  It's form N5 (not N5B) and N121 for a standard possession claim for trespass.
                  (and you are not looking for an interim possession order, as that is only for squatters who had no permission to enter the premises).

                  There must be people around with experience...
                  Thanks for your thoughts Ted.E.Bear. I initially thought it was N5, but the notes stipulated this form was for getting your property back if your tenants owe you rent, which didn't apply in my case. However having actually now looked at the form, I see it is far more straightforward than N5B (Only 2 pages instead of 20), and allows me to apply for a trespass based eviction, without any detailed questions about the tenancy agreement as N5B asks. On reflection, it looks like N5 is more suited to my needs!

                  On reading the link below, seems I need both N5 and N121 as you say
                  https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal...st_trespassers

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ChrisDennison View Post
                    I think this here is a nice summary:



                    Courtesy of jmw solicitors, https://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-b...operty-or-land

                    It sounds as if you indeed need a possession order, but none against a former tenant.

                    You’ll have to speak to a solicitor. You might well be able to recover your costs against the occupier, depending on which track this court case ends up in.
                    Thanks Chris, thats useful. Its been quite hard to find the correct course of action from looking online, due to the circumstances of my case, but i think i'm getting a clearer picture now. I never wanted things to go this far, but i've tried everything and waited nearly 2 years now with little progress. Its looking like i may have to go down the solicitor route :-(

                    She actually has a good job, so i'm hopeful she can be made liable for the legal costs this is going to incur.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You’ll need N121 in all likelihood because this is a claim against trespassers. Thankfully these claims aren’t currently stopped. But you’ll still need to get someone legally trained involved, don’t attempt this on your own (would be my advice).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by sparkey164 View Post

                        Thanks for your reply MdeB. Answers inline.
                        Given your answers to third and fourth bullets, I think you cannot lawfully just exclude her, but need a court order.

                        Good luck.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If she can show evidence that she contributed toward the bills, then this may be regarded by a court as 'monies worth' and might be enough to infer a tenancy was granted. Without the evidence, she is just a guest who is no longer welcome and can be excluded from the property.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think you will find costs are fixed and limited to £85 or so and full solicitor costs not recoverable. Have a look at CPRules.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi there,

                              Having gone through this, I can help. I was LiP through this, and actually sought an Order for Sale, not just possession so this should be easier.

                              The below is from my personal experience, I'm not a solicitor, you should consult one as I did, I spent roughly £1500 on advice, then acted LiP at hearings using their advice.

                              You'll need to:
                              1. Issue a formal Letter of Claim, where you state she is trespassing, which is a crime under s144 LASPO and she has no legal right to the Property, you want her out within 14 days or you'll be issuing proceedings and seeking costs against her, which a conservative estimate would be about £2,000.

                              2. When that date passes, issue a Letter Before Action, where you re-iterate she is trespassing and make a final demand for possession, giving her another 14 days to get out. Stress that you'll be seeking costs against her.

                              3. When she doesn't vacate, you'll need to fill in a N5 (Possession Claim form) with accompanying N121 (Trespasses particulars of claim), specifying that this is a residential Property.You'll need to write a thorough witness statement and include evidence to back up everything you say (title docs, etc etc).

                              4. You'll be making the application pursuant to CPR 55.1 (b) which states a claim for trespass can be brought against someone who entered (or remained - important) on a Property without the consent of the person with legal rights to it, costs £355.

                              5. Send 3 copies of the N5, N121, witness statement and evidence, with a covering letter to the Court and request they serve the claim on the Defendant. As you know her name, you don't need to follow the stressful CPR rules around service of documents on trespassers by nailing claims to the door etc.

                              6. Wait for the hearing date, attend, argue the toss and hopefully get your Order.

                              7. When the date for possession passes, if she's still there, enforce the Order via a Warrant of Possession, another £121.

                              That should do you. The above assumes she has never been tenant or sub-tenant, which would defeat the Trespass claim.

                              steps 1-2 are just to cover your ass, so you can say to the Judge "I tried to get her out", along with no doubt years of evidence of you trying. If she files a Defence, it'll no doubt be that she is a tenant, but it takes more than moving into somewhere and paying bills to be a tenant.

                              The above is complicated, so I re-iterate, see a solicitor. That said, I managed to navigate it purely as Litigant in Person, I'm sure others can.

                              Hope this helps.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X