Tenant taking issue with "lateness" of inspection.

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    #16
    I think there is something missing from this whole thread. What was the exact nature of the permission given?

    If you asked for permission to carry out an inspection on X date and time and did not say they they need to be there to let you in
    And T responded yes that is fine but I will need to be there

    is not quite the same as

    Can I carry out an inspection at X date and time?
    Answer Yes

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
      The tenant will post you a key.
      As you no know they don't want you to enter the property when they're not there, you'd have no practical way of finding out if it works or not.

      And it doesn't matter because you can't use it anyway.

      Ahh I understand, them sending me a key of the new lock after being told not to use the old key to enter on the previous lock, means we can't use the new key anyway unless it's an emergency.
      All these rules seem to side so heavily with the tenant, makes me wonder why we bother.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
        I think there is something missing from this whole thread. What was the exact nature of the permission given?

        If you asked for permission to carry out an inspection on X date and time and did not say they they need to be there to let you in
        And T responded yes that is fine but I will need to be there

        is not quite the same as

        Can I carry out an inspection at X date and time?
        Answer Yes
        We asked to do an inspection on the specific date (which was 4 clear days ahead as we were planning to be nearby) at 2pm. The tenants agreed that it would be okay and would be at home.

        We were held up and when we arrived at 2.20-2.25 ish we rung the doorbell but there was no response, and we knocked too, so because they said they would be at home but no one was answering we used our keys and conducted the inspection, which only took a few minutes and it was obvious that it was being well kept so there was no problem.

        We text the tenants to thank them for keeping the property clean and tidy, but her response was anger that we arrived late and let ourselves in with our own keys and said that because we were late we should have arranged for another appointment.



        Admittedly I did also let myself in to the flat 3 days after the tenancy began without telling them to repaint a wall, but it was only on the basis that the tenants told me that they had an overlap with their prior home, and wouldn't start moving any of their possessions in to our flat until the weekend (8 days after the tenancy agreement had begun). They only realised I had done that because the smell of new paint but instead of being grateful they were annoyed that I was there in the first place without telling them.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by SamCartman View Post
          We asked to do an inspection on the specific date (which was 4 clear days ahead as we were planning to be nearby) at 2pm. The tenants agreed that it would be okay and would be at home.
          My point was that it is perfectly OK to let yourself in if you are given unqualified permission. That does not seem to apply in your case.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

            My point was that it is perfectly OK to let yourself in if you are given unqualified permission. That does not seem to apply in your case.
            So are you saying that if we arrange an appointment and, for whatever reason, either we or they were late or early, that we have to specifically state in advance that we will use our keys in order to enter?

            What would happen if we gave them 24 hours notice and they were away or on holiday, do we need to get their actual permission to enter with our key even though it's not our fault that they are on holiday?



            Comment


              #21
              Well the words you use "tenants agreed that it would be okay and would be at home" does NOT suggest a simple permission to enter.

              I'm not 100% sure what you are aiming for here - but I would just apologise and say that you will clarify the extent of permission next time.

              Comment


                #22
                It's not their fault they are on holiday when you want to inspect. Hopefully they don't install some hidden cameras and you can prove the notice of inspection was received by the tenant.

                It's a good thing the girl doesn't have a hearing problem and was having a shower when you walked in to inspect bathroom... She screams and boyfriend just happens to be walking in through the front door...

                If I were the tenant I probably would have called you to say "are you coming as I'm going out" and as a landlord I would have called to say "I'm running late".

                Perhaps in future you state you will come between 2pm-3pm.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by SamCartman View Post

                  Because of that they were not present when we were inspecting our property,
                  It is their property because you have leased it to them.

                  Originally posted by SamCartman View Post
                  They only realised I had done that because the smell of new paint but instead of being grateful they were annoyed that I was there in the first place without telling them.
                  I too would have been annoyed if you had entered my property without my permission.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    This is poor behaviour by you as landlord. Letting yourselves in to paint a wall without asking is very out of order, and the second time being late by 25 minutes is unacceptable, and then you let yourselves in without contacting the tenant. Very unprofessional. There is a pattern emerging of just letting yourselves in and were i the tenant i would have changed the locks the first time. You should apologise profusely and give assurances it won't happen again.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Jon66 View Post
                      This is poor behaviour by you as landlord. Letting yourselves in to paint a wall without asking is very out of order, and the second time being late by 25 minutes is unacceptable, and then you let yourselves in without contacting the tenant. Very unprofessional. There is a pattern emerging of just letting yourselves in and were i the tenant i would have changed the locks the first time. You should apologise profusely and give assurances it won't happen again.
                      Even though they admitted that they were not moving in until the start of the following week? What harm has been done?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by SamCartman View Post

                        Even though they admitted that they were not moving in until the start of the following week? What harm has been done?
                        You entered their home without permission. Imagine if you had a car on hire purchase, and the dealership came over used their keys to reupholster the seats without telling you.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          It is not about legal/illegal.
                          it is about the fact when you rent a property, it becomes someone's home.

                          How would you feel if you give a neighbour a key for emergency and they just come in without trying to contact you?

                          Same happens here. So apologize profusely, provide time between and if running late - let your tenants know that you are running late.
                          It is polite and professional

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by SamCartman View Post
                            Admittedly I did also let myself in to the flat 3 days after the tenancy began without telling them to repaint a wall, but it was only on the basis that the tenants told me that they had an overlap with their prior home, and wouldn't start moving any of their possessions in to our flat until the weekend (8 days after the tenancy agreement had begun). They only realised I had done that because the smell of new paint but instead of being grateful they were annoyed that I was there in the first place without telling them.
                            I'm not surprised they were upset.

                            You have a pattern of trespassing in someone else's home.
                            How are your tenants meant to feel secure and that they have a safe place to live?

                            You need some very basic understanding of being a landlord.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Few years ago had to witness a similar situation where letting agent was physically dragged outside of the property by the dad & son (tenants), and nothing happened afterwards even when Police arrived. Generally, a 20 min lateness without any intimation isn't counted or pardoned as allowable especially on an occasion which may affect other which in this case could be affecting the tenant who might have been on break while on duty. Also, entering forcefully into a property without the presence of tenant is very pernicious especially in now a days where you could be incriminated with any offensive act such as stealing/spying etc. And regarding painting a wall after the commencement of tenancy despite the tenants hadn't moved yet wasn't a sensible act for which you could have been arrested or kicked out forcefully as a trespasser.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                My analysis of the legal position is set out in the first two posts of this thread.

                                At least one barrister (in a discussion or article to be found somewhere on this site) agrees with me that if a term of a tenancy provides that a landlord may enter for a specified (reasonable) purpose upon giving a specified period of notice and gives such a notice, if he enters while the tenant is absent and without force he is not trespassing. He is not trespassing because the consent is given by the terms of the tenancy and does not need to be sought again.

                                The suggestion that entering against the tenant's wishes while the tenant is absent leaves the landlord open to certain accusations is certainly a point, but it is not that much of a point as the same accusations can be made if the landlord enters without objection.

                                I am a bit surprised at the fuss being made over the OP entering and painting a wall before the tenant took up occupation. Technically it was not a trespass as the tenancy had not begun. Apart from that, as the OP has said, there was no intrusion on privacy and no harm was done.

                                As to the more recent entry, as Anna1985 says, it is not so much about the law but about respecting the fact that the property is the tenant's home. What we have (as we all too often have when landlords deal with tenants) is a failure of a landlord to imagine himself in the position of the tenant. As I said, the tenant has a right to be annoyed, but not to make a big deal over it. The OP does rather seem intent on defending his action, which not that unreasonably he does not feel has done any harm, when the politic thing to do is to apologise for a misunderstanding to smooth things over and restore good relations.

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