Section 21 issued with new tenancy

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    Section 21 issued with new tenancy

    When a new tenant moves into a property, I get them to sign a section 21 so that if whatever reason things don’t work out, the necessary paperwork is already in place.
    I’ve never had a need to exercise this yet, but would it work?

    #2
    Not unless you travel back in time if you're in England.

    No section 21 notice in the first 4 months of the first tenancy since 1 October 2015.
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

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      #3
      Section 21 notices also expire after 6 months unless escalated to court (currently 10 months because of plague).
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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        #4
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        Section 21 notices also expire after 6 months unless escalated to court (currently 10 months because of plague).
        so is there no way to issue a S21 at point of contract despite the 10month rule

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by fmST1 View Post
          so is there no way to issue a S21 at point of contract despite the 10month rule
          No.
          The law was put in place to try and stop landlords unsettling tenants by giving them notice for no reason, leaving them with a constant threat of instant eviction.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by fmST1 View Post
            When a new tenant moves into a property, I get them to sign a section 21 so that if whatever reason things don’t work out, the necessary paperwork is already in place.
            I’ve never had a need to exercise this yet, but would it work?
            No.

            You charge a rate of rent commensurate with the risk. And you select tenants very very very carefully.

            Comment


              #7
              You can issue a s21 any time you like, even before tenancy starts. But it will be invalid.

              S21 equivalent went in Scotland over 2 years ago. Handle it!
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by fmST1 View Post

                so is there no way to issue a S21 at point of contract despite the 10month rule
                Because of the 10 month rule. You issue a s21 on the first day of the 5th month, this has a notice period of 6 months, hence you arrive at the end of month 10.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by ChrisDennison View Post
                  You issue a s21 on the first day of the 5th month, this has a notice period of 6 months, hence you arrive at the end of month 10.
                  Surely the earliest you can get to is "after the first day of month 11".

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ... Which is pretty much at the end of 10 months - plus/minus a few days

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by fmST1 View Post
                      When a new tenant moves into a property, I get them to sign a section 21
                      Apart from anything else this approach isn't likely to cultivate a whole lot of goodwill.

                      Seems a bit like starting a new job and being advised on your first day to keep your desk clear in case you don't last the week.

                      Or an elderly hospital patient being allocated a bed at the optimum end of the ward closest to the morgue.
                      There is a fine line between irony and stupidity. If I say something absurd please assume that I am being facetious.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by doobrey View Post

                        Apart from anything else this approach isn't likely to cultivate a whole lot of goodwill.

                        Seems a bit like starting a new job and being advised on your first day to keep your desk clear in case you don't last the week.
                        Well, pretty much all jobs start with a probationary period which allows both sides to get rid of each other with a weeks’ notice. I think that is not too dissimilar.

                        I understand the reasons for issuing a s21 preemptively particularly if it becomes more and more difficult to enforce them (just like now).

                        So I will be thinking very hard about whether or not I should issue a s21 in four months’ time to the new tenants who have just moved into one of my properties on a six month initial term. Because that would still give them another six months of security of tenure (at the very minimum) and it would allow me to keep my options open should things take a turn for the worse.

                        One thing that crossed my mind though - is issuing a s21 preemptively (and telling the tenants that this is in all likelihood not to be actioned upon) actually possible or does telling the tenants that it’s probably not going to be used destroy or invalidate the notice? I would hope not but this landlord and tenant law seems more and more bizarre so better safe than sorry

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ChrisDennison View Post
                          One thing that crossed my mind though - is issuing a s21 preemptively (and telling the tenants that this is in all likelihood not to be actioned upon) actually possible or does telling the tenants that it’s probably not going to be used destroy or invalidate the notice? I would hope not but this landlord and tenant law seems more and more bizarre so better safe than sorry
                          It wouldn't invalidate the notice.

                          But it's a terrible practice.
                          What most landords want are rent paying tenants who are there for the long term.
                          You want them to be happily taking care of their home so they can enjoy it long term, not be waiting for possession paperwork to drop through the door without warning.
                          Making them feel insecure isn't good for their mental well-being and will make them feel much less positive about their relationship with you and your property.

                          The four month rule and six month expiry are one of the few bits of recent(ish) landlord legislation that I think benefits tenants.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I completely agree with your statement and most of my tenants have been long term tenants who had made their property their home. On the other hand, six months notice is a ridiculous amount of time (not necessarily for no-fault evictions but we all know s21 isn’t used for this and unless other more expedient options actually exist in reality rather than just on paper, it will remain that way). I’m not sure I’d be happy to wait that long so serving a s21 preemptively (as much as I would dread it) seems to become a viable option to reduce risk. Shameful that it has come to this though!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              At the moment, six month's notice is temporary and ends next March.
                              And we're all in bad places in our heads because we're living under a plague which none of us are used to.

                              But, being realistic, two month's notice was never enough.
                              Now the legal system has collapsed, I'd set the standard s21 notice to 4 months.
                              That's enough time to find somewhere else to live, s21 notices are rare and locally clustered so the downside is limited.

                              Section 8 notices should be used where appropriate and we should encourage that.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment

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