Should I be angry? Is my estate agent deliberately lying to me? (EICR & PAT test)

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    Should I be angry? Is my estate agent deliberately lying to me? (EICR & PAT test)

    Please read these 3 short emails and let me know your thoughts..... (note: The agent has just found me a tenant. I am a private landlord, the property only has 1 appliance, a fridge)


    AGENT:
    Good Morning Jim

    Hope you are well.

    Please find attached proposed tenancy as discussed. Can you please confirm your referencing preference and make the associated payment.

    You will see there is also now a legal requirement to have an EICR in place in order to start a new tenancy. You will also require a PAT test (£60+Vat) as appliances are being offered under tenancy also. We can instruct an electrician to carry out these essential elements or indeed you can use your own but both elements are required for the tenancy to commence.

    If you have any queries or wish to discuss please come back to me.

    Kind Regards

    ------------------
    ME (JIM):
    "You will also require a PAT test"
    I've never heard of this being a requirement before. I've had a look and can't see any new requirements for this.
    Can you point me to the legislation please.

    -----------------
    AGENT:
    Good Afternoon Jim

    Hope you are well.

    We carry out PAT testing as standard on all of properties as a duty of care so it is a strong recommendation that this is conducted but your decision to make.

    If you do not wish carry out the PAT testing on our recommendation then we would ask that you sign a disclaimer suggesting this. I will forward this disclaimer for you to review if this is your preference?

    Kind Regards
    --------------------


    So what do you guys think? I also found it strange that the agent is asking for payments without showing me the full tenancy agreement, or at least a template. Surely they should provide this before I start making payments? They only game me what looks like a cover/front page (tenants name, rental price etc)




    #2
    From 1st June 2020 you need an electric certificate for new lettings.

    PAT testing is only for portable appliances such as toasters, kettles etc . You don't need them for fridges.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm not sure what the issue is relating to the tests and the tenancy agreement.

      Yes, I think they should show you a full tenancy agreement, but that has nothing to do with the tests.

      I'd guess they're worried that you will steal the tenancy agreement and use it yourself.
      Which seems a pretty common practice.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        I think there may be a kettle in the kitchen, but the point is that the PAT test is not a "requirement" or "essential" as they told me. Should I make an issue of this? Is it likely they wanted to mislead me somewhat? A deliberate lie or a mistake?

        Comment


          #5
          Not really A lie j

          Comment


            #6
            I think they're selling their services to make money and have very cleverly worded their email to make something that's highly recommended look mandatory.

            Whether you should be angry with that is up to you - you seem to have seen through their technique (and it's only £72).

            Personally, I'd bin the kettle to stop this being an issue.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Perhaps I am overreacting but I don't think it's cleverly worded at all. After saying the EICR is legal requirement (true), he says the PAT test is also a "requirement" and "essential" (not true).

              I am referring to:
              " there is also now a legal requirement to have an EICR in place in order to start a new tenancy. You will also require a PAT test (£60+Vat) as appliances are being offered under tenancy also. We can instruct an electrician to carry out these essential elements"

              Comment


                #8
                agree with the above. PAT test not a requirement. Do not supply kettles, toasters, microwaves etc. You will only be replacing them when they break!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jim101 View Post
                  Perhaps I am overreacting but I don't think it's cleverly worded at all. After saying the EICR is legal requirement (true), he says the PAT test is also a "requirement" and "essential" (not true).

                  I am referring to:
                  " there is also now a legal requirement to have an EICR in place in order to start a new tenancy. You will also require a PAT test (£60+Vat) as appliances are being offered under tenancy also. We can instruct an electrician to carry out these essential elements"
                  Perhaps you could reply to the agent saying that you are not supplying any electrical appliances that require a PAT test. Get rid of the kettle or replace it every year (cheaper than PAT testing it).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jim101 View Post
                    Perhaps I am overreacting but I don't think it's cleverly worded at all.
                    That's entirely your prerogative, I'm certainly not going to tell you how you should feel!

                    If you think a line has been crossed from pushy sales to dishonesty, it's been crossed.
                    Shame for the agent - tried to be clever and lost a customer.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Even with a kettle there is no requirement to pay for a PAT test. ....Is I understand.
                      I guess I'm just being a grumpy cheap Charley, but it's the principle, its about honesty.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I dont really see any problem with the agents email. I understand that PAT testing of supplied appliances is now common practice amongst agents to cover themselves and their landlords. They've told you its not a legal requirement and offered you the opportunity to sign a disclaimer instead. I agree that the use of the word 'required' is a little ambiguous, but on the whole this seems to me like a perfectly reasonable communication from the agent.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          We have been through PAT before.

                          Portable Appliance Testing is not a legal requirement.

                          From the Health and Safety Execitive FAQs on PAT: https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/f...ce-testing.htm

                          The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition. However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually).
                          Most workplaces have PAT done by a third party as the easiest, verifiable/recorded, way to prove that portable appliances at that workplace are safe.
                          There is actually no requirement to keep records of the test, or even to put the stickers on the plug/equipment. Those are simply done to clearly demonstrate that a test has been done.

                          Obviously that's a workplace regulation so it does not apply to domestic properties.

                          However in a rental property the LL must show that that the property is safe, and so that any electrical appliances provided are safe to use.
                          Electrical safety will also be a requirement of your insurance and/or mortgage.
                          And the easiest way to do that clearly is a PAT.

                          So the agent is correct in saying that EICR is required by law for the fixed electrial instalation and wiring.

                          PAT is not a legal requirement, (and the agent doesn't say that it is), but it's the easiest way to comply with your requirement as a landlord to ensure that your rental property, and anything you supply in it, is safe.
                          If you can clearly demonstrate in some other way that any electrical appliances you supply are safe to use then PAT is not required.
                          (eg. Brand new appliances should be safe and so don't need PAT).

                          PS. It's not just small appliances - A 'Portable Appliance' is anything that can be unplugged and moved from one location to another.
                          Basically if it has a plug then its portable, it's wired in without a plug then it is not portable.
                          So a fridge, freezer, washer, drier, etc. that you can unplug would be classed as a portable appliance, a wired in electric cooker or shower wouldn't be.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jim101 View Post
                            its about honesty.
                            I agree. This is not good form and does not engender trust. Details are important in property management and if presenting something as a requirement which is not actually a legal requirement (as implied), they should specify whose requirement it actually is. However, as transgressions go this is at the lower end of the scale.
                            There is a fine line between irony and stupidity. If I say something absurd please assume that I am being facetious.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks for the feedback guys, useful info, and given me some perspective.

                              Comment

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