How to get tenant to give notice of intention to stay or leave after fixed term ?

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    How to get tenant to give notice of intention to stay or leave after fixed term ?

    I understand that legally tenants don't need to tell their landlord that they intend to leave after the fixed term. But i'm trying to figure out how best to get around this (as i really want to avoid the uncertainty). I could :
    - put in a clause (arguably not enforceable) requiring the tenant to give one month's notice of intention to LEAVE at the end of the fixed term
    - put in a clause (arguably not enforceable) requiring the tenant to give one month's notice of intention to STAY at the end of the fixed term
    - serve a section 21 notice two months prior and then enter into a new fixed-term AST if tenants ask to stay

    I've also read (here: https://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/20...he-fixed-term/) the following suggestion:
    "... if you set up a contract that starts on a fixed term and then goes periodic, ie fixed term of 6 months “and then monthly” then by contract there is no ending of that tenancy and the tenant would be obliged to give notice. It should be understood that in the above example the minimum period the tenant is entitled to remain in the property would be 7 months, otherwise you will not have given them the “and then monthly part of the agreement. If you want to avoid this you could make the fixed term 5 months and then monthly.
    To be honest, though, i don't really understand this!


    #2
    Brief summary - all of these attempts of yours are a waste of time. You have no real rights. You accept the voids when they come, charge higher rents to take account of the fact of the costs associated with your lack of substantial rights

    and you speak nicely to the tenants about their intention. Most are nice decent people. A few are not.

    Comment


      #3
      [QUOTE=aciduzzo;n1112851To be honest, though, i don't really understand this![/QUOTE]
      There are two different types of tenancy being discussed.

      There is the traditional tenancy, which begins with a fixed term, which ends, and then a new Statutory Periodic Tenancy begins (due to the 1988 Housing Act).

      There is an increasingly popular type of tenancy in which there is no fixed term, there is simply an initial term (which doesn't end in the same way as a fixed term) and then the same tenancy continues periodically because there are terms in the contract that determine this.

      Because the second type of tenancy doesn't have a fixed term, the tenant doesn't have any right to simply leave at the end, and has to give notice.

      The downside is only that this isn't what some tenants expect (most don't really read their tenancy agreements) and there's a practical issue if they just leave anyway (or give the wrong notice).

      I think that a tenancy that becomes a contractual periodic tenancy would overcome your concern.

      But I think the underlying issue is
      i really want to avoid the uncertainty
      because this is a business involving people and there's no way of avoiding uncertainty.
      It's better to expect and embrace it.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post
        I understand that legally tenants don't need to tell their landlord that they intend to leave after the fixed term. But i'm trying to figure out how best to get around this (as i really want to avoid the uncertainty).
        Two options:
        1. Talk to your tenants and find out a couple of months before the end of the fixed term what their intentions are. (But, of course, intentions can change).
        2. As you have read, and suggested above, a contractual periodic tenancy.

        Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post
        "... if you set up a contract that starts on a fixed term and then goes periodic, ie fixed term of 6 months “and then monthly” then by contract there is no ending of that tenancy and the tenant would be obliged to give notice.
        It is not a "fixed" term, it is an "initial" term.

        Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post
        It should be understood that in the above example the minimum period the tenant is entitled to remain in the property would be 7 months, otherwise you will not have given them the “and then monthly part of the agreement. If you want to avoid this you could make the fixed term 5 months and then monthly.
        To be honest, though, i don't really understand this!
        I don't understand the "cannot end at the end of the initial term" either.

        My agreements state "Term: 6 months from and including <date> and continuing monthly thereafter unless and until terminated in accordance with section X", which I believe allows for termination at the end of the initial period.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MdeB View Post
          My agreements state "Term: 6 months from and including <date> and continuing monthly thereafter unless and until terminated in accordance with section X", which I believe allows for termination at the end of the initial period.
          It may do if section X says so. The basic rule is that if you provide for the term to be x months and thereafter monthly you create a tenancy with a minimum term of x+1 months.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MdeB View Post
            [*]As you have read, and suggested above, a contractual periodic tenancy.

            It is not a "fixed" term, it is an "initial" term.

            My agreements state "Term: 6 months from and including <date> and continuing monthly thereafter unless and until terminated in accordance with section X", which I believe allows for termination at the end of the initial period.
            It looks to me like this would be my best option. How do you word your section X?



            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

              It may do if section X says so. The basic rule is that if you provide for the term to be x months and thereafter monthly you create a tenancy with a minimum term of x+1 months.
              This is the part i don't understand. Can you elaborate, please?

              Comment


                #8
                I wouldn't suggest you try to draft a tenancy agreement yourself. You need a decent model CPT agreement. I suggest you join the NRLA and use their free template.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
                  I wouldn't suggest you try to draft a tenancy agreement yourself. You need a decent model CPT agreement. I suggest you join the NRLA and use their free template.
                  Yes, happy to do that. Only issue is that i already have an AST template that i've been using for a couple of years and am happy with (except for the fixed-term part)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post
                    Only issue is that i already have an AST template that i've been using for a couple of years and am happy with (except for the fixed-term part)
                    Well that's a fundamental part and unless you are a legal specialist I would not try tinkering with it. You are likely to do more harm than good. You need a model agreement that was conceived as as CPT from the start.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post

                      This is the part i don't understand. Can you elaborate, please?
                      The term is

                      6 months starting on 1st March...

                      Obviously we have at least 6 months

                      ...and thereafter from month to month

                      We have to add something because it says "and thereafter" and what we add is a month.

                      The principle is confirmed by Re Searle [1912] 1 Ch 610

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post

                        Yes, happy to do that. Only issue is that i already have an AST template that i've been using for a couple of years and am happy with (except for the fixed-term part)
                        I could suggest one or two formulae, but the danger is that there is something else in the agreement which which will not dovetail neatly.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

                          I could suggest one or two formulae, but the danger is that there is something else in the agreement which which will not dovetail neatly.
                          I don't think there's anything unusual in there, but the template i am using currently is here:
                          https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M-...UxlMAlY43qiviu
                          I have highlighted (in red) the sections relating to term and termination.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            How much did the template cost you please?
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by aciduzzo View Post

                              I don't think there's anything unusual in there, but the template i am using currently is here:
                              https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M-...UxlMAlY43qiviu
                              I have highlighted (in red) the sections relating to term and termination.
                              I am afraid I cannot express the slightest enthusiasm for the template.

                              Comment

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