Hi all,
Hope you can help and sorry if this is a long one, I'll try to keep it brief.
Essentially, I have just moved out of a property. Before I (and my other flatmate moved in) the two tenants (out of 3) we replaced trashed the hall carpets - few oil stains/cigarette burns etc.
Naively, when I signed the tenancy agreement, I didn't realise I was taking over their responsibilities and thus being liable for damage caused by tenants prior to me living at the house. One of the original tenants was still living at the property until recently, which was why a new agreement was never produced.
Now - firstly, there was never an inventory produced - the property was 'brand new' when the tenants moved in....so I hope this is a bit of a loophole.
Essentially, they want £350 out of our deposit to recarpet a hallway that is approx 24 square metres (ridiculous!). We've said that we're not happy with that and as the carpet is 3 years old, we're prepared to pay 40% of the cost of a REASONABLY priced replacement.
I'll copy and paste our e-mails below for you to have a look - I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me where we stand legally.
So, does anybody know where I stand? I can't see why we have to replace a 3 year old carpet with a brand new one - surely it's like-for-like (hence either second hand or we pay a percentage of the cost of a new one)? I'm happy to make a contribution, but it's just a little unfair that I'm paying for damage that occurred before we even lived there!
Thanks,
Chris.
Hope you can help and sorry if this is a long one, I'll try to keep it brief.
Essentially, I have just moved out of a property. Before I (and my other flatmate moved in) the two tenants (out of 3) we replaced trashed the hall carpets - few oil stains/cigarette burns etc.
Naively, when I signed the tenancy agreement, I didn't realise I was taking over their responsibilities and thus being liable for damage caused by tenants prior to me living at the house. One of the original tenants was still living at the property until recently, which was why a new agreement was never produced.
Now - firstly, there was never an inventory produced - the property was 'brand new' when the tenants moved in....so I hope this is a bit of a loophole.
Essentially, they want £350 out of our deposit to recarpet a hallway that is approx 24 square metres (ridiculous!). We've said that we're not happy with that and as the carpet is 3 years old, we're prepared to pay 40% of the cost of a REASONABLY priced replacement.
I'll copy and paste our e-mails below for you to have a look - I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me where we stand legally.
E-mail #1 (to me)
Chris/Natalie
John and I had a long chat about the our conclusion was the deposit of £750 should be returned less the cost of replacing the carpet in the hallways.
This is has come about because once the carpets were cleaned there were grease marks and two burn holes in the carpet which no amount of cleaning will repair. The other items thought the flat just little bids, light bulbs not working, oven cleaning, and deep cleaning in general etc John is prepared to let these things go.
The cost of this carpet unfortunately as it is almost the same area of the lounge, the cost is approx £350.00 plus vat. John has already paid out for the cleaning of the existing carpet and spent time in cleaning the flat. The decoration and repairs John said he would do anyway. So John is to only going to withhold £350 of the deposit.
So to be returned is £400.00 is this to be split two or three ways please advise me.
If you have any questions please do not hesitate to let me know.
______
My response
Thanks for your response.
That's a fair comment regarding the hall carpet needing replacing - but after searching several sources and seeking a bit of advice, I'm not happy about either the value of the deduction and the fact that you have not deducted costs for what is defined as 'fair wear and tear'.
If a case like this was to be heard in a court it would seem that the assumption used is that a hallway carpet has a lifespan of approximately five years. Therefore, if a carpet was replaced early, the cost beared by the tenant would be the cost of the carpet minus a deduction for how long the previous carpet has been in use for.
In our instance, the flat was renovated back in 2005 (I believe) - and so the carpet has been laid for roughly three years. As the carpet needs replacing two years early, we should only be bearing a cost of 40% of the replacement value, as the carpets would had needed doing after roughly five anyway.
Regardless of this point, the cost that you have advised (£350+ VAT) in my mind is a little excessive, and again in accordance to advice provided to me, I would like to see details of the quotes that you obtained to choose someone charging this price. As I already have the dimensions of the hallway, I've spent the last ten minutes searching the web for example quotes and have come across a website called 'Carpet.it'.
They will do a 'SIESTA 30' carpet (same as what we have, it would appear) for £9.99 per sq/m fitted, which would total £239.76. They also do high quality hallway carpets for £350 fitted, but I do not think that the carpet fitted in the flat at the moment is of that quality.
EZCarpets.co.uk even do a hallway carpet fitted with underlay too called 'Antrim Twist', same colour as we had for £10.99 per sq/m, totalling £263.76.
This is based on a piece of carpet measuring 300cm x 800cm (much bigger than is needed, also takes into account the fact that the hall is T shaped) and therefore 24 square metres.
As the carpets have been laid for 3 years (approx) already, we should only be footing the other two years of wear (40%), making the final cost to us either £95 or £105.20 respectively for the carpets that I found online.
And lastly on this point, I have e-mails from you saying that this carpet was due to be replaced anyway and that it was being arranged to be replaced at the same time as the lounge carpet when we were still living there?
Both myself and Natalie feel that an offer of paying 40% (or 5 year lifespan minus how long the carpets have been laid for) of the best quote after seeking some legal advice is more than adequte, considering that you advised that this carpet was being replaced anyway, and also taken into consideration the fact that no inventory/schedule of contents was ever produced, so there is no legally admissible evidence that the carpet was new when the tenants first moved in. The carpets were disgusting when myself and Natalie moved in and I raised this issue to you and the response was along the lines that it was 'no big deal'.
I look forwards to your response on this note.
____
Email #2 (to me)
Chris
Without Prejustice
The formal quote I am waiting for, with regard to the lifespan of the carpet this is a non issue as the carpet is damaged not worn.
The offer is very fair looking at the whole picture but if you wish to look into further into the mater I will add all the other items in that I mentioned earlier and this will nearly double the total, also understand that John has not included VAT on your deductions.
Being fair is the way that you have always been treated and I am not about to change that. By the way the advice that you were given is a little misleading as the case in question has been quoted a number of times and is not as clear as the advice centres like to make be, It is not applicable in this case.
With regard to the carpet being new the whole building was new along with everything in it I administered the contract build and have all the bills. The legal position is very clear the flat was new in is entirety you entered the AST taking joint and several liabilities with your fellow tenants in regards to rent and condition.
I as far as I am concerned tithe mater is closed and I will proportion the remaining deposit fairly between you.
Chris/Natalie
John and I had a long chat about the our conclusion was the deposit of £750 should be returned less the cost of replacing the carpet in the hallways.
This is has come about because once the carpets were cleaned there were grease marks and two burn holes in the carpet which no amount of cleaning will repair. The other items thought the flat just little bids, light bulbs not working, oven cleaning, and deep cleaning in general etc John is prepared to let these things go.
The cost of this carpet unfortunately as it is almost the same area of the lounge, the cost is approx £350.00 plus vat. John has already paid out for the cleaning of the existing carpet and spent time in cleaning the flat. The decoration and repairs John said he would do anyway. So John is to only going to withhold £350 of the deposit.
So to be returned is £400.00 is this to be split two or three ways please advise me.
If you have any questions please do not hesitate to let me know.
______
My response
Thanks for your response.
That's a fair comment regarding the hall carpet needing replacing - but after searching several sources and seeking a bit of advice, I'm not happy about either the value of the deduction and the fact that you have not deducted costs for what is defined as 'fair wear and tear'.
If a case like this was to be heard in a court it would seem that the assumption used is that a hallway carpet has a lifespan of approximately five years. Therefore, if a carpet was replaced early, the cost beared by the tenant would be the cost of the carpet minus a deduction for how long the previous carpet has been in use for.
In our instance, the flat was renovated back in 2005 (I believe) - and so the carpet has been laid for roughly three years. As the carpet needs replacing two years early, we should only be bearing a cost of 40% of the replacement value, as the carpets would had needed doing after roughly five anyway.
Regardless of this point, the cost that you have advised (£350+ VAT) in my mind is a little excessive, and again in accordance to advice provided to me, I would like to see details of the quotes that you obtained to choose someone charging this price. As I already have the dimensions of the hallway, I've spent the last ten minutes searching the web for example quotes and have come across a website called 'Carpet.it'.
They will do a 'SIESTA 30' carpet (same as what we have, it would appear) for £9.99 per sq/m fitted, which would total £239.76. They also do high quality hallway carpets for £350 fitted, but I do not think that the carpet fitted in the flat at the moment is of that quality.
EZCarpets.co.uk even do a hallway carpet fitted with underlay too called 'Antrim Twist', same colour as we had for £10.99 per sq/m, totalling £263.76.
This is based on a piece of carpet measuring 300cm x 800cm (much bigger than is needed, also takes into account the fact that the hall is T shaped) and therefore 24 square metres.
As the carpets have been laid for 3 years (approx) already, we should only be footing the other two years of wear (40%), making the final cost to us either £95 or £105.20 respectively for the carpets that I found online.
And lastly on this point, I have e-mails from you saying that this carpet was due to be replaced anyway and that it was being arranged to be replaced at the same time as the lounge carpet when we were still living there?
Both myself and Natalie feel that an offer of paying 40% (or 5 year lifespan minus how long the carpets have been laid for) of the best quote after seeking some legal advice is more than adequte, considering that you advised that this carpet was being replaced anyway, and also taken into consideration the fact that no inventory/schedule of contents was ever produced, so there is no legally admissible evidence that the carpet was new when the tenants first moved in. The carpets were disgusting when myself and Natalie moved in and I raised this issue to you and the response was along the lines that it was 'no big deal'.
I look forwards to your response on this note.
____
Email #2 (to me)
Chris
Without Prejustice
The formal quote I am waiting for, with regard to the lifespan of the carpet this is a non issue as the carpet is damaged not worn.
The offer is very fair looking at the whole picture but if you wish to look into further into the mater I will add all the other items in that I mentioned earlier and this will nearly double the total, also understand that John has not included VAT on your deductions.
Being fair is the way that you have always been treated and I am not about to change that. By the way the advice that you were given is a little misleading as the case in question has been quoted a number of times and is not as clear as the advice centres like to make be, It is not applicable in this case.
With regard to the carpet being new the whole building was new along with everything in it I administered the contract build and have all the bills. The legal position is very clear the flat was new in is entirety you entered the AST taking joint and several liabilities with your fellow tenants in regards to rent and condition.
I as far as I am concerned tithe mater is closed and I will proportion the remaining deposit fairly between you.
So, does anybody know where I stand? I can't see why we have to replace a 3 year old carpet with a brand new one - surely it's like-for-like (hence either second hand or we pay a percentage of the cost of a new one)? I'm happy to make a contribution, but it's just a little unfair that I'm paying for damage that occurred before we even lived there!
Thanks,
Chris.
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