Being made to pay two months' notice - Please Help

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    #16
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    Loss if landlord won breach of contract case - I guess award of no more the 2 month's rent plus small claims fees - £50?
    That's the point.
    The landlord isn't losing any rent as a result of the lack of notice.
    The tenancy ends; no rent is then due.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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      #17
      Do you think there is any way the landlord/agency can block me from a reference? Or perhaps make a massive deduction from the deposit?

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        #18
        They can decline to give you a reference (they're not mandatory) or give an honest one.

        They can try and make deductions from the deposit, but you'd have to agree.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #19
          Are there any clauses about a statutory periodic or contractual periodic tenancy?

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            #20
            DPT57 Just by searching the word 'periodic' the only reference is under the 'Definitions' section which states:

            The term of the tenancy: References to the term or the tenancy include any extension or continuation, or any statutory periodic tenancy which may arise following the end of the period set out in clause 1.8 (I show 1.8 on page 1 of this thread).

            This is the only reference. Does this change anything?

            Hans

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              #21
              My advice is:
              1. Ignore GrumpyGit's advice.
              2. Take on jpkeates' advice
              3. Email the agent to ask if a statutory periodic tenancy will arise at the end of the term.
                1. If the answer is "yes", then you have sufficient evidence to vacate before the end of the term with no further commitment.
                2. If the answer is "no", then ask them why and what will happen, then bring the answer back here.
              Your post #20 suggests to me that the answer to 3 should be "yes".

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                #22
                Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post

                Loss if landlord won breach of contract case - I guess award of no more the 2 month's rent plus small claims fees - £50?
                Given that the T has given the LL a month to find a new tenant, I would have thought the award would be at most 1 month's rent (and in my opinion, tat would be a very generous judge).

                Comment


                  #23
                  The loss has to be directly related to the breach, as the intent is to put things to how they would have been had the breach not occurred.
                  Generally speaking, the landlord would have to show that there was some kind of cost associated with the breach that would otherwise not have occurred - voids between tenancies are common and it is next to impossible for a landlord to be able to show that they were so surprised by the tenant's leaving (as they were entitled to) that it delayed taking on a new tenancy in any material way.

                  It might be remotely possible if the landlord could show that they'd turned away a prospective tenant entirely on the basis that they thought the tenant was staying on - and they would still have to overcome the need to mitigate any loss, so why didn't they ask the tenant what their intentions were?

                  And, in this specific case, the tenant has told the landlord that they intend to move out before the end of the tenancy, just not 2 month's before, so the landlord has no chance of making any claim for loss.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Thanks all. So I decided to heed the advice to get additional "legal" help...although I am not sure as to the trustworthiness of "Just Answer UK Law". After they reviewed, I got a prompt response saying:

                    Ordinarily, you only need to give a notice at the end of the agreement or on month 11.

                    However here, its different - you have a signed tenancy agreement.

                    It clearly says:

                    If the Tenant intends to vacate at the end of the fixed Term or later he must give the Landlord at least two clear months prior notice in writing.

                    As such this contractual clause overrides whatever else you think

                    Does that clarify?


                    I am getting really confused folks!

                    Hans

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                      #25
                      That is very poor advice. I hope you didn't pay for it.

                      From what you've said I think you probably have a regular fixed term tenancy. The clause in your TA requiring notice to end it is very likely unfair, having been declared so by the former OFT. In your situation I would inform the agent/landlord that I was leaving at the end of the tenancy and believe that their clause is an unfair contract term. I think it is highly unlikely that they will attempt to sue you and if they did I think they would probably lose.

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                        #26
                        That "advice" is wrong.

                        As a tenant, you can't serve valid notice at month 11 - and then the rest of it would be true if you didn't have the right to leave at the end of the fixed term.

                        If I thought it would do any good I'd suggest complaining.

                        If you want a second opinion, talk to Shelter.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by HansChaermann View Post
                          Does that clarify?
                          The answer is "NO".

                          It only tells you what you already knew.

                          It does not tell you if the term is likely to be deemed unfair.

                          It does not tell you what the LL could do if you breach the term.

                          It does not tell you the likelihood of te LL being successful in any claim.

                          It does not tell you what the LL might be awarded if LL is successful in a claim.

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                            #28
                            Thank you very much DPT57, jpkeates, MdeB and others.

                            Apologies for the slow update, however I have been trying to find further concrete legal advice.

                            I am getting nowhere with Shelter and other free providers as they seem to be totally over-encumbered at the moment. I have sought advice from commercial channels, but that seems to be rather prohibitively expensive.

                            Given that there is some experienced consensus here that this is unenforceable, what next for my approach? Do we simply move out next week and then wait to see what happens? Surely they will contest this? Do I need to say anything further?

                            Thank you for any further guidance; all of your thoughts are very much appreciated.

                            Hans

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                              #29
                              I would tell them that you're planning to move out when the tenancy ends at the end of the fixed term and ask them to arrange a proper check out.
                              Regardless of what they say about notice, they still need to do the check out.
                              If they continue to disagree, you might suggest that they take some "advice" (as you have done, they don't know it's only us and we can't give proper "legal advice").

                              If, for some insane reason they refuse to do the check out, take lots of photos and video of the property as you leave and post the keys through the agents door when they're shut (if they refuse to accept them).

                              Make sure you cancel any standing order and ignore any requests for rent.

                              This is exactly what I would do in your situation.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                                ignore any requests for rent.
                                This is most important.
                                Provided yo vacate the premises and return the keys before the end of the fixed term, then the tenancy ends and no rent is due.

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