Electrical Safety Certificates

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    #31
    The draft legislation does not give a defintion of 'remedial work' but I guess if the EICR only records observations inconsistent with the 18th edition I guess that means 'all' C1, C2 and C3 observations ouch!

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      #32
      Originally posted by JK0 View Post

      It's because the draft specifies the 2018 regs, which itself required a steel consumer unit, plus also blue & brown wire cores. There is no allowance made for things that were deemed okay at the time they were installed.
      oh dear that is a biggie. When the 1st? BS amendment to 17th edition came out I asked NICEIC about metal consumer units and they said it was risk based and was the decision of the electrician

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        #33
        Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread but you lot seem to know a bit about EICR's - can a freeholder demand that I produce an EICR before they will "register" my sub-letting? There's no mention in the lease. Thanks in advance

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          #34
          Originally posted by Fairs fair View Post
          Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread but you lot seem to know a bit about EICR's - can a freeholder demand that I produce an EICR before they will "register" my sub-letting? There's no mention in the lease. Thanks in advance
          Nah. Though from July it looks like we're going to have to get one anyway.

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            #35
            The government publication at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/...1191934_en.pdf suggests that the intention was
            • EICRs done in the previous 5 years would satisfy the regulations.
            • LLs would comply with the regulations if there are no C1, C2 or F1 classified defects in the property
            It is a pity that they did not draft the regulations to say that.

            If the regulations are not changed, does that mean that the government will give every landlord a free copy of the Wiring Regulations?

            Para 15.1 of that document says
            Luke Spanton at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (0303 44 41693 or luke.spanton@communities.gov.uk) can be contacted with any queries regarding the instrument.
            I suggest that everyone does so, with their take on what is wrong and explaining the difference between what the authors intend and how judges and lawyers will interpret the regulations.

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              #36
              Originally posted by cymro123 View Post
              Out of interest can you explain this comment - I have read the draft but it's not leaping out at me
              When someone does an electrical test, they are able to mark things as not-compliant but safe (C3), which they can use if they are unable to test something (like the way that the cables are fixed inside the walls.

              The wording of the legislation doesn't allow for that, it says that the property must be compliant with the 2018 regulations (which doesn't allow for non-compliant but safe).

              The regulations prior to 2018 specified a plastic consumer unit, and so almost every property with a consumer unit has one of those. The 2018 regulations require a metal consumer unit. Which would normally be a perfect candidate for C3, but without that, it's not compliant.

              And the same goes for non-metal fixings inside walls, or old coloured cables. And probably other things that no one has considered.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                #37
                Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                ...I suggest that everyone does so, with their take on what is wrong and explaining the difference between what the authors intend and how judges and lawyers will interpret the regulations.
                Good post. I've sent him an email and have added to my earlier communication with the RLA on the subject.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
                  Good post. I've sent him an email and have added to my earlier communication with the RLA on the subject.
                  Me too and my MP.

                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    Me too and my MP.
                    My MP is a socialist and would probably approve of this, so I have not troubled him.

                    I have emailed Sir Humphrey though. I bet none of us receive so much as an acknowledgement of our emails.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by JK0 View Post

                      My MP is a socialist and would probably approve of this, so I have not troubled him.
                      But he may be concerned about the possibility of people being made homeless because of the need to comply with the regulations.

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                        #41
                        I have canvassed a member of the House of Lords and in fact there is the potential for the Lords to modify the regulations. I personally think it unrealistic to expect that the necessary work can be done in the next 56 weeks for each of the 5,500,000 privately rented dwellings to be brought up to the 2018 standards. I think the Government have actually got things wrong because there are problems with the regulations as drafted. Local authorities will be able to fine private landlords up to £30,000 for non compliance. The politicians probably understate the difficulties not merely of getting access but also for doing what will be for older tenancies extensive works even if an installation is actually perfectly safe in terms of earlier regulation. And why do the politicians not seek to protect the most vulnerable tenants, namely those renting from Registered Social Landlords. These landlords are entirely exempt from the order. Why is that? Because the councils don't want to be taking their local housing associations to court? If this legislation was genuinely being enacting to protect tenants it should extend to be binding on registered social landlords not just private landlords IMHO

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                          #42
                          Dear Mr. Keates,
                          Thank you for your email and for raising this with me. I will follow up with the Minister responsible to share your concerns about the proposed legislation and will come back to you on this.
                          Kind regards

                          MP Name redacted
                          Let's see - benefit of the doubt because it's a new MP
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            Let's see - benefit of the doubt because it's a new MP
                            In my experience:
                            • MP passes letter to the department.
                            • Department minions provide some waffle about "nothing to worry about" but not actually understanding the issue, nor passing it on to someone who might.
                            • MP sends response to constituent.
                            And then, if you have the desire:
                            • Constituent replies to MP explaining how the issue has not been addressed, and what you realy want is ...
                            • MP sighs and says he will pass this on.
                            • Department minions do the same again
                            • MP sends response to constituent.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Yep. Me too,

                              One additional thing that has occurred to me is that there is no evidence that tenants in the PRS have any more deaths or injuries than anyone else - because no one has that kind of statistics.
                              So, no one will know if this has any impact at all.

                              Other than moving money from landlords to electricians and reducing the tax take by HMRC,
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Update. The Lords is the only hope of getting these regulations changed because it has gone through Committee. Housing Associations are entirely exempt. An installation that was adjudged to be perfectly safe in 2017 is to be condemned now. There will be a huge number of inert plastic consumer units sent to landfill and replaced with metal ones. I doubt that compliance with this demand on private sector landlords will be universal.

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