Tenant or Lodger?

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  • Hudson01
    replied
    wow what a mess, excluding the lodger/ast side of things and given this '' house '' is under development are you sure the gas and electrics are safe ? The landlord sounds dodgy and incompetent but are you willing to put your health at risk by being in a dwelling that is dangerous...... desperate times i guess.

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  • MdeB
    replied
    I would go talk to citizens' advice, as there are many questions that need answering to give a robust answer.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    She probably has an HMO in that case, as well.

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  • Logical.Lean
    replied
    Originally posted by Felics View Post
    not at the address im living at.
    Do they have a room? I rented a room mid.week off a woman, who then took a job in Germany, and then via a friend doing the admin, moved 2 more lodgers in.
    I'm sure that after I left, one of the lodgers sued her for failing to protect the deposit.
    She had a 4th room which she said was hers, but I don't think she did use it in.the 8.months I was there.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    I can only repeat, the landlord doesn't know what they're doing, their behaviour is unacceptable and you need to find somewhere else to live.

    If you live in the property and cannot exclude the landlord you would probably be an excluded occupier, which doesn't seem to suit you.
    You wouldn't be a lodger.

    If you change the locks to keep the landlord out, you might morph into a tenant.

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
    Well you are not a lodger then no matter what the contract says you are.
    As Andrew wisely says:

    For the classic case on sham licence/lodger agreements see "Street v Mountford"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_v_Mountford
    You've got an AST:

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  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Well you are not a lodger then no matter what the contract says you are.

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  • Felics
    replied
    not at the address im living at.

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  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by Felics View Post
    I have a seperate question - under the latest draft of the agreement now sent, the L has asked me to be an excluded occupier.

    I don't want to be this given the restricted benefits in comparison to a tenant.

    Legally, if I allow her access does that make me an excluded occupier? I thought I could qualify as a tenant for a room only AST?
    You haven't attempted to properly answer the question as to where your landlord lives

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  • leaseholder64
    replied
    Excluded occupiers can be tenants.

    Being an excluded occupiers is a matter of fact, not what the contract says. I think you need to fill in the standard questionnaire for this forum, which is in one of the sticky posts.

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  • Felics
    replied
    I have a seperate question - under the latest draft of the agreement now sent, the L has asked me to be an excluded occupier.

    I don't want to be this given the restricted benefits in comparison to a tenant.

    Legally, if I allow her access does that make me an excluded occupier? I thought I could qualify as a tenant for a room only AST?

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  • AndrewDod
    replied
    I think the problem OP is going to have is proving that the landlord was not and is not also in occupation -- given it is all verbal and only one week. Does the landlord have another primary residence, and where is that?

    It is perfectly possible for L to ask a lodger if they wish to convert to an AST as L is now departing. Which is what they are now doing.

    So what PROOF does OP have that distinguishes him from any other lodger - at least for that first week. That fact that L was not there in that first week is hard to prove and is also not relevant (a landlord of a lodger is allowed to be away for a week).

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Nope. If you don't have tenancy on complete property then it is a "HMO for council tax" and landlord is responsible for council tax. E.g. landlord excludes one small room.


    Very different from usual HMOs.

    Your landlord hasn't a clue. Wonder what else he's getting wrong - gas safety cert, electric safety, rent declared to taxman, keeping address at property so mortgage company don't realise he's renting it out etc etc

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  • Felics
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    Who's responsible for paying council tax is set by law, you can't decide it in a contract.

    If you're a tenant of the whole property, you're liable.
    If you're a lodger or a tenant of part of the property, your landlord is liable.

    Your "landlord" doesn't know what they're doing and you need to find somewhere else to live.
    Understood however this doesnt fit neatly into my situation.

    From the facts and circumstances I can say I am likely a tenant (and thus liable for Ctax). This is fine as I can avoid paying CTAX on my current place as its undergoing major refurb and therefore can benefit from exemption.

    Yes she doesn't know what she is doing. I won't go into why I cant find another place to live but that is case. I am just trying to explore my options for living here now.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by Felics View Post
    Is this the case even though she mentioned that rent will be inclusive of all bills?
    Who's responsible for paying council tax is set by law, you can't decide it in a contract.

    If you're a tenant of the whole property, you're liable.
    If you're a lodger or a tenant of part of the property, your landlord is liable.

    Your "landlord" doesn't know what they're doing and you need to find somewhere else to live.

    Leave a comment:

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