Are you able to write fines into a lodger contract for lost time?

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    #16
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    The point about the clauses not being enforceable is that they're not legal.
    Given that the fines for breaking rules would all be clearly in the contract & the lodger would have to read, agree to it & sign it before moving in, how is it not legal?

    Thanks in advance for the clarification

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      #17
      Because in English law penalty clauses in consumer contracts are not legal and your tenant reading them and understanding and, even, agreeing the terms can't overcome that.

      Fundamentally, the balance of power between consumers and traders and service providers is so unequal, the legislation (and market guidance from people like the competition and markets commission) is there to redress the balance.

      When contracts are signed between businesses, the rules are different, because businesses are presumed to know what they're agreeing to.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        Because in English law penalty clauses in consumer contracts are not legal and your tenant reading them and understanding and, even, agreeing the terms can't overcome that.

        When contracts are signed between businesses, the rules are different, because businesses are presumed to know what they're agreeing to.
        wow so basically normal people are immune to contracts because they aren't presumed to know what they're agreeing to? oh my word.

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          #19
          For goodness sake, you're not a court. You dont have the power to fine people. And if you try to convince a real court that you should be allowed to fine someone for slamming a door or having sex in your property they will just laugh and throw you out. Are you really sure that taking in lodgers is a good idea?

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            #20
            Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
            For goodness sake, you're not a court.
            Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
            Are you really sure that taking in lodgers is a good idea?
            Are you sure you have read the original post? Because it would appear you haven't. The original post refers to a friend who is a landlady.

            Sounds like you think her lodgers' behaviour is reasonable. Glad you're not a lodger!

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
              Because in English law penalty clauses in consumer contracts are not legal
              Then how come private parking companies are able to fine consumers?

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                #22
                They don', the apply a Penalty and claim it is a legit 'fine'.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by bobwilson54 View Post
                  Then how come private parking companies are able to fine consumers?
                  They don't.
                  Their "fines" are technically invoices for parking.

                  They rely on notices that say that by parking somewhere you are agreeing to pay a fee for doing so, and they are simply invoicing you for that service.
                  They make the invoices look as much like parking tickets as possible, and offer discounts for quick settlement, but they're usually a con.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by bobwilson54 View Post
                    wow so basically normal people are immune to contracts because they aren't presumed to know what they're agreeing to? oh my word.
                    To quote from memory Lady Hale in the bank charges case: The law allows a person to make an unwise choice but not an uninformed one.

                    The law does not just protect tenants and lodgers it protects everyone. The law which protects tenants and lodgers protects you and your friend when you book a holiday, get on a train, join a gym or instruct a letting agent.

                    Whilst "consumer law" may be of recent origin, the law has always looked carefully at situations where they see an imbalance of bargaining power between the parties or unreasonable provisions tucked away in the small print. The law does not interfere if you drive a hard bargain, but it will not let you make an unfair one.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by bobwilson54 View Post
                      wow so basically normal people are immune to contracts because they aren't presumed to know what they're agreeing to? oh my word.
                      Not at all.
                      Consumer law is designed to protect ordinary people from being taken advantage of.

                      Reasonable and fair terms in a fair market can be agreed to, and unreasonable and unfair terms can't.

                      If it were possible for companies and people to include unfair terms which made them money, everyone would do it, and it wouldn't be possible for anyone to avoid them.
                      If it were possible for suppliers to collude to fix pricing to increase profits, they would.
                      Consumer laws simply reset the balance of power a little.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        Reasonable and fair terms in a fair market can be agreed to, and unreasonable and unfair terms can't.
                        It doesn't seem reasonable and fair for a landlady to be subjected to the onslaught of the behaviour & associated losses with no compensation.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          Their "fines" are technically invoices for parking.
                          In which case, why can't the landlady do the same thing by putting signs up & and invoice for her time & losses caused by anyone who breaks the rules?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by bobwilson54 View Post
                            In which case, why can't the landlady do the same thing by putting signs up & and invoice for her time & losses caused by anyone who breaks the rules?
                            They could.
                            And they would lose any contested claims in exactly the same way that the parking firms lose pretty much every claim someone contests properly.
                            There's even a web site to process parking fine contests.

                            Some people would pay them because some people don't know their rights.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by bobwilson54 View Post
                              It doesn't seem reasonable and fair for a landlady to be subjected to the onslaught of the behaviour & associated losses with no compensation.
                              She can claim compensation for her losses, just not penalties on top of them.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                                She can claim compensation for her losses, just not penalties on top of them.
                                what about losses for her time? Each rule broken might sound small but when there's a large quantity of them the time she spends rectifying the problem and warning the lodger can easily rack up.

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