section 8 failed.

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    section 8 failed.

    The tenant moved into a garage/workshop which has been converted into living accomodation. The tenancy started in April 2019 on a 6 Month shorthold tenancy agreement (old lawpack lease). Her rent was £100 a week. She paid for approx 4 weeks and then stopped paying apart from 2 weeks payment in August which her boyfriend paid.
    A section 8 was served and the court date was today but the judge has said there is nothing he can do as the property is called a "garage" on the lease agreement and therefore it is classed as a commercial property despite the lease being a residential lease.
    The tenant has said she will not be paying anymore rent and will not be leaving.
    Please can anyone help or offer advice on the way forward.
    Please note the correct paperwork was not done i.e. no ECP, no how to rent guide. There is no gas, so gas certificate not needed. A deposit was not taken.
    My relative is now fully aware of his mistakes but we are looking for a way forward as despite his mistakes we see no reason why this tenant should be able to live there for free for the rest of her life!

    #2
    I would be concerned about the possible criminal prosecution, as this sounds like a beds in sheds case, and those tend to be high priority for prosecutions.

    Comment


      #3
      Your relative needs to find a solicitor who specialises in property law and start saving up for the bill.

      I'm not sure that the judge was correct (which doesn't really help), because either the converted garage is a dwelling house or it isn't.
      If it is, it should be an assured tenancy and the notice should be valid.
      If it isn't, some kind of notice to quit is still possible, because it is obviously a tenancy of some kind.

      On the other hand, it's a lot to ask a judge to try and sort through and your relative obviously isn't starting from a good place, they've clearly tried it on and been caught out.

      There are other complications, you need planning permission to convert a commercial unit into a private residence and there are likely to be building regulations issues.
      And no EPC means a possible fine in itself.
      And any insurance or lending on the property is probably invalid.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        Agree with everything Jp keates says. I thought it was a council tax reason but the accommodation does not have a kitchen or cooking facilities so it would not have been subject to council tax. It has a utility area with a sink, space for washing machine, space for fridge and a shower room.

        Regarding beds in sheds, my relative is a soft touch and will do anything for people and this girl was sleeping on someone's sofa 2 doors down and was desperate. She had 2 people vouch for her including one of the current tenants at the time. He wasn't looking for a tenant he was doing someone a favour.

        I have learnt from experience that to show kindness is a weakness and if you give an inch they'll take a mile. Unfortunately it is not the first time someone has taken advantage of my relative.

        My relative has admitted that he has not done things properly and I think has probably now decided to sell the property.

        I am unsure why the garage is considered commercial when it is a garage/workshop in the rear garden of a house? Lots of people convert their garages but I'm not sure of the technicalities of not getting building regs although I have been aware of several property's with extensions or conversions which have been done without building regs and there doesn't seem to be any issue other than a reduction in value. This garage was built by my relative when he lived in the property so I would have to enquire as to building regs.

        So a property law solicitor seems the only way to go.

        Where would he stand if he offered her money to move. Is that illegal?







        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by slooky View Post
          Where would he stand if he offered her money to move. Is that illegal?
          No, it would be fine.

          If the building doesn't have any cooking facilities it possibly isn't a dwelling house and it's possible the occupant is an excluded occupant as a consequence.

          Solicitor is the way to go, even if they are part of the offer of money to leave.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Actually you don't always need PP to convert commercial to residential - change of use can come under Permitted Development rules.

            I was looking at this a couple of months ago when I was drawing up some plans for a friends brother who had bought a closed for months shop premesis (lock up) and wanted to extend and turn into a single storey flat.

            The council agreed that it could be done under PD but that building control would need to sign it off for compliance with residential construction.
            (He's since bought the rest of the building so the project has changed somewhat).

            Comment


              #7
              Yes the rules are strange. We have built a "shed" in the garden with a bathroom, bedroom & lounge which our son lives in. The enforcement officer has visited 3 times (thanks to one of our neighbours). The enforcement officer has confirmed we are not doing anything wrong and my son is happy as Larry.

              Comment


                #8
                I took garage/workshop to mean something much more elaborate than an outbuilding, originally.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by slooky View Post
                  ...................... but the accommodation does not have a kitchen or cooking facilities so it would not have been subject to council tax. It has a utility area with a sink, space for washing machine, space for fridge and a shower room.................
                  No kitchen or any way of cooking is unlawful, certainly would get problems with council under HHSRS. I too would be worried about landlord being prosecuted.

                  Was the tenant claiming ANY benefits at the address? In particular HB or the housing element of UC?




                  I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Not aware of any benefits being paid. How would a landlord know these days

                    Comment

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