Can I grant a non-AST letting? How?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can I grant a non-AST letting? How?

    Before I start, I would like to make it clear that I am not looking for a way to make a tenancy into a 'non AST' but it is feedback I have heard from prospective tenants about other agents.

    Could the following scenario result in a tenancy agreement that was not an AST?

    6 month contract
    Landlord not resident in property
    Two individuals in mid 20's
    Property privately owned by an individual landlord
    Rent under £25 000 pa

    I believed that this would legally have to be an AST and therefore any deposit would have to be protect by the tenancy deposit legislation but I am interested to see if I am mistaken.

    Kind regards,

    John
    Last edited by Editor; 17-04-2008, 20:04 PM.

  • #2
    There is no reason why it can not be a A.T contract as long as it is worded that way. Downside for the LL would be the loss of use of a S.21.
    Deposit would not need to be protected.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting, makes sense but it seems very risky for a LL as the tenant could 'up and leave' at any time so you could in theory be changing tenants every month.

      I would appreciate it if you could clarify something for me. (I don't use A.T's).

      A tenant wants a short term let of two months. If an AST is used the tenant could turn around and say he won't go unil he gets a section 21, which will then be 6 months (in total) before he leaves.

      If an AT is used on a period tenancy then how does the LL gain possession (assumming a S8 can't be used?). Evidently, the tenant could leave after one month (if they gave their notice straight away).

      Many thanks,

      John
      Last edited by Editor; 17-04-2008, 20:04 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        LL can't, that's the risk you take if you issue AST with fixed term of only 2 months.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Colincbayley View Post
          There is no reason why it can not be a A.T contract as long as it is worded that way. Downside for the LL would be the loss of use of a S.21.
          Deposit would not need to be protected.
          I agree. To ensure that it is an SAT, not an AST, include appropriate clause complying with paragraph 3 in Schedule 2A to 1988 Act.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


          • #6
            I understand that is the risk of the an AST with 2 months as essentially you are allowing them to stay for 6 if they wish.

            But with regards to an AT, how does the LL gain possession at the end of the 2 month period or any other period that an AT is set for.

            This is all out of curiousity as it is not a route I will be using.

            Kind regards,

            John
            Last edited by Editor; 17-04-2008, 20:04 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MaverickPropertyManagemen View Post
              I understand that is the risk of the an AST with 2 months as essentially you are allowing them to stay for 6 if they wish.

              But with regards to an AT, how does the LL gain possession at the end of the 2 month period or any other period that an AT is set for.

              This is all out of curiousity as it is not a route I will be using.

              Kind regards,

              John
              AT= SAT or AST. Be specific here.

              If you meant an SAT:
              a. L cannot use s.21;
              b. L can still use s.8; but
              c. otherwise, T is irremovable unless/until T wants to go voluntarily.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


              • #8
                I meant AT as in Assured Tenancy as opposed to AST meaning Assured Shorthold Tenancy.

                What does the S infront of the AT mean?

                It seems interesting to me that a LL who knows that he is not going to need his property back can let their house out on an AT (assured tenancy) and completely avoid the deposit legislation, with no problem as long as they know they aren't going to need the property back.

                Assumming a SAT and AT are the same!

                Many thanks,

                John
                Last edited by Editor; 17-04-2008, 20:05 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MaverickPropertyManagemen View Post
                  I meant AT as in Assured Tenancy as opposed to AST meaning Assured Shorthold Tenancy.

                  What does the S infront of the AT mean?

                  It seems interesting to me that a LL who knows that he is not going to need his property back can let their house out on an AT (assured tenancy) and completely avoid the deposit legislation, with no problem as long as they know they aren't going to need the property back.

                  Assumming a SAT and AT are the same!

                  Many thanks,

                  John
                  Look:
                  Any residential letting within 1988 is an AT (Assured Tenancy).
                  Since 28 Feb. 1997, an AT is an AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy) UNLESS L opts out and makes it into an SAT (Standard Assured Tenancy).
                  So ASTs + SATs = ATs.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In that case I was referring to a SAT rather than an AST although some of my reference material seems to refer to a SAT as a assured tenancy rather than a standard assured tenancy.

                    Thank you for your explanations.

                    Kind regards,

                    John
                    Last edited by Editor; 17-04-2008, 20:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MaverickPropertyManagemen View Post
                      In that case I was referring to a SAT rather than an AST although some of my reference material seems to refer to a SAT as a assured tenancy rather than a standard assured tenancy.
                      Yes. The Act does not use the SAT definition which is more just a convenient way to describe an AT that's not an AST.
                      All the provisions in Chapter I of the 1988 Act [i.e. s.1-s.19] apply to both types of AT.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So just to clarify, and as I understand it, there is, at the moment, no legal way to let to a tenant for LESS than 6 months and for the landlord still legally to be able to apply for vacant possession before 6 months are up?

                        There are many situations where tenants want very short term lets and the law seems to be working against tenants in this case as LLs aren't able to let to them without taking HUGE risks and so won't now let for less than 6 months.

                        Is there anything in the legal pipeline to address this problem??

                        Just curious.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          L can let to T for less than six months, but:
                          a. (AST) L cannot obtain a s.21 Possession Order that operates before six months; and
                          b. (SAT) L cannot use s.21 at all.

                          However, L can:
                          a. let inside 1988 Act by using SAT and serving an applicable pre-tenancy Notice (e.g. under g1, if L used to be owner-occupier); or
                          b. let outside 1988 Act (e.g. to company, or at over £25 000 rent p.a.)
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So I am right in thinking that there's nothing you can do to let safely because of your first two provisos:

                            "a. (AST) L cannot obtain a s.21 Possession Order that operates before six months; and
                            b. (SAT) L cannot use s.21 at all."

                            and if your property doesn't fall under the other two situations you outline:

                            "a. let inside 1988 Act by using SAT and serving an applicable pre-tenancy Notice (e.g. under g1, if L used to be owner-occupier); or
                            b. let outside 1988 Act (e.g. to company, or at over £25 000 rent p.a.)"

                            I'm sure a lot of LLs would let for shorter periods (summer lets for example) if there was a safe way of doing it.

                            By the way, how long would a person have to live in a property in order for them to be legally regarded as a previous owner occupier?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bagpuss View Post
                              So I am right in thinking that there's nothing you can do to let safely because of your first two provisos:

                              "a. (AST) L cannot obtain a s.21 Possession Order that operates before six months; and
                              b. (SAT) L cannot use s.21 at all."

                              and if your property doesn't fall under the other two situations you outline:

                              "a. let inside 1988 Act by using SAT and serving an applicable pre-tenancy Notice (e.g. under g1, if L used to be owner-occupier); or
                              b. let outside 1988 Act (e.g. to company, or at over £25 000 rent p.a.)"

                              I'm sure a lot of LLs would let for shorter periods (summer lets for example) if there was a safe way of doing it.

                              By the way, how long would a person have to live in a property in order for them to be legally regarded as a previous owner occupier?
                              Summer let may be OK if it's a holiday let: outside Act because of paragraph 9 in Schedule 1.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Landlord asks that T to pay deposit protection charge each time we renew AST
                                JP23
                                Why must we continuously renew our deposit with the scheme each time we re-sign our AST i.e. every 12 months?

                                Why can the deposit not remain protected throughout the duration of the overall tenant occupation?

                                Is our landlord acting in questionable faith by asking us to pay...
                                23-07-2017, 04:18 AM
                              • Reply to Landlord asks that T to pay deposit protection charge each time we renew AST
                                Lvkn
                                Hello
                                i am a landlord and have insurance based deposit protection (I hold the deposit in segregated client account and register it with My Deposits) every time a new contract is drawn up we have to pay £48. If a tenancy is renewed, we pay £48. If someone moves out of one of our multiple tenant...
                                23-07-2017, 20:27 PM
                              • Excessive estate agent fees
                                Cml241
                                I have a property which I started renting out via an agency. When the contract started, they found new tenants, did the relevant checks etc and charged an upfront fee which equates to approx one month's rent. As one year has almost passed, the agent has approached me asking if I want them to 'renegotiate'...
                                21-07-2017, 16:26 PM
                              • Reply to Excessive estate agent fees
                                Wright76
                                If you have no ongoing contract with the agent and it was "find" only, they have no right to force you into a new AST.

                                Depending on the terms of your contract there's nothing to prevent you, if your feeling confident, in renewing the contract yourself and taking over.
                                ...
                                23-07-2017, 19:11 PM
                              • Reply to Landlord asks that T to pay deposit protection charge each time we renew AST
                                jjlandlord
                                Fees for 'renewing' will not be in the tenancy agreement because they are not fees of the tenancy and are freely negiotiated.

                                The landlord should simply charge an admin fee to renew and set it to include all his costs...
                                23-07-2017, 19:02 PM
                              • Structuring a deal - Purchase Option/Overage Agreement?
                                pdmalik
                                Hello,

                                There is a derelict property with good potential in my area. The owner tried to sell it in a local auction few years back and did not get what he wanted (actually did but got greedy). Now he can even sell it for cheaper than what he was getting in the auction. Property has good potential...
                                23-07-2017, 16:52 PM
                              • Reply to Structuring a deal - Purchase Option/Overage Agreement?
                                mariner
                                Make the owner an offer to purchase.
                                23-07-2017, 18:46 PM
                              • Reply to Landlord asks that T to pay deposit protection charge each time we renew AST
                                Wright76
                                There is no charge and it doesn't need reprotecting if it's in a custodial scheme. If it's in an insurance based scheme then landlord is holding it and can be claiming interest on it, it's therefore very cheeky but not illegal to pass the cost onto you.

                                Ask him if he can use a custodial...
                                23-07-2017, 18:45 PM
                              • Reply to Landlord asks that T to pay deposit protection charge each time we renew AST
                                KTC
                                Yes, but if we're talking renewal, then it'll inevitably be in it.

                                Is it insured or custodial. Insured, meh. Custodial, wholly unreasonable....
                                23-07-2017, 18:33 PM
                              • Deposit at the end of AST. Also, quiet enjoyment.
                                scooter08
                                Q1 – Where is the rented property located (England / Wales / Scotland / N Ireland)?
                                England

                                Q2 – What type of Tenancy Agreement (TA) is this e.g. sole tenant / multiple tenant / room only?
                                AST

                                Q3 – What date did current TA start dd/mm/yy?
                                12/04/2015
                                ...
                                21-07-2017, 15:06 PM
                              Working...
                              X