Tenancy end date question, change of rent due date

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    Tenancy end date question, change of rent due date

    Hi guys

    just a quick question. Tenant changed rent due date from 6th of the month to 12th, due to change in her employers payment date.

    She gave notice on the 19th November to the letting agent that she wanted to vacate on the 13th December, however this was not in writing, nor was it 30 days.

    (Tenancy is periodic, rent is paid monthly)

    When I highlighted this to the letting agent Her leaving date was changed to 24 December. My letting agent says this is quite acceptable notice when I suggested notice should now actually be 11th January. They feel the notice given, if I stuck to this would be 43 days (up to the 6th January) and that this is unreasonable. If it’s going to cause problems then I will concede but I am annoyed at the letting agent for not being more on the ball and for making me out to be the baddie.

    My questions are
    1) just for future reference, is anyone aware if the change of rent payment date legally takes precedent over the ast. Ie the ast states rent should be paid on the 6th, but this has since been changed to the 12th in practice, but the ast remains unchanged?
    2) do most of you stick to 30 days falling on a rent due date or are you happy with just 30 days.

    thanks for any help!

    #2
    Its never a good idea to formally change the rent date for this reason. Better to just give verbal permission to pay on a later date. Do you know how the date was changed? Did the tenant pay a partial month and then full months rent on the new date? I would just accept this notice this time as it might be impossible to guarantee the outcome if you challenge it. Instruct the Agent not to do this in future.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your replyDPT57. As far as I am aware the date was changed verbally and the tenant paid extra in the month prior to the change. Ie say 6th March to 11th April. Then paid 12th thereafter.

      are you therefore saying notice should be on the 6th January?

      Comment


        #4
        As the change of rent day was a change of the core terms it should have been executed as a deed for the complete avoidance of doubt. As this change was done verbally the evidence the rent day changed is one persons word against another. Assume for a moment the period of the tenancy remains 6th to 5th then the tenant's notice to quit (NTQ) must always be in writing, must always be for at least one calendar month and must expire on the last day of a period (5th) or the first day of a period (6th).

        Comment


          #5
          Following on....a valid NTQ served on 19th November should have expired on 5th January or 11th January (depending on which rent day you accept is correct) but would have only been valid if the NTQ had a savings clause otherwise the agent should have rejected it as invalid.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for this cymro123, really helpful!

            Comment


              #7
              The agreed rent payment date, and the tenancy dates have nothing to do with each other (unless you took elaborate steps, agreed with the tenant to do so). You did not take such steps. You simply agreed to accept late rent.

              She will owe rent until the 5th unless you negotiate otherwise and accept their notice - tenancies are bought in full months.


              Your agent is an idiot and is acting outside of their remit if they agreed otherwise on your behalf - ask them to pay the difference themselves if they inappropriately contracted with the tenant.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by nessa View Post
                1) just for future reference, is anyone aware if the change of rent payment date legally takes precedent over the ast. Ie the ast states rent should be paid on the 6th, but this has since been changed to the 12th in practice, but the ast remains unchanged?
                2) do most of you stick to 30 days falling on a rent due date or are you happy with just 30 days.
                1. As has been said above, don't change the rent payment date, and certainly don't take a part-month payment if you do change rent payment date; this leads to problems when either side wants to end the tenancy, and to legal uncertainty.
                  If there is a need for the tenant to shift the payment date by a few days, then agree that rent will not be considered late if it is paid by Xth of the month, but if it is not paid by that date, the interest is payable from the rent due date.
                2. The law says at least 30 days notice or one rental period's notice ending on the last day of a rental period, so in your case that is at least one month's notice.
                So
                • Your agent is wrong and is not acting in your best interests.
                • But if your agent has accepted the notice, then that is binding on you.
                • Sounds like time to find an agent that knows what they are doing and what their duty to you is.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Being agent's advocate, they probably thought they were acting in the landlord's interest when they negotiated an extra payment to cover the date change - my agent has done this "for me".

                  In future I've asked them not to do that and just to let me know on what date the rent due on day x will actually arrive. As long as I get 12 monthly payments in a year, I'm happy. They were surprised.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    When a tenancy is periodic changing the rent payment date does not change the date on which a notice to quit must expire.That is because tenancy periods and rental periods are two distinct things, though ideally they should coincide.

                    In the case of a statutory periodic tenancy the first day of the first period is always the day after the fixed term ends (assuming it ends at midnight). Any notice to quit must be drawn up accordingly. When the rent is payable is ignored. It is advisable when drawing up a tenancy agreement to make sure it ends on the last day of a rental period.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks to you all for your sound advice! Tenant is now vacating on the 6th.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by nessa View Post
                        however this was not in writing
                        I've just noticed this.

                        If notice is not in writing, then it has no legal standing and leaves LL open to possible accusation of illegal eviction.

                        No agent that knows what they are doing would "accept" notice that is not in writing.

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