T moves out one week before end of tenancy - what are LL rights to go in?

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    T moves out one week before end of tenancy - what are LL rights to go in?

    Hi all,

    A T friend has asked me a question on something and as I have never been in the situation, I've never really asked.

    She moved out of the property around 5 or 6 days before the end of the tenancy, but as yet had the property to clean and move just the last few bits.

    The estate agent returned the spare set of keys to the LL and the LL let herself in around 4 days before end of tenancy.

    The T returns to pick up last few bits, and also replace a few glasses etc from the inventory which were broken over the two year tenancy (probably overkill but she wanted to return the property well). She meets up with L in the property. l says not to bother with clean etc, the estate agent covers that in fees. T protests and wants to do it herself, LL says no need, thanks and bye. T leaves and contacts estate agent telling him LL is in the property and requested no cleaning. Estate agent says 'but it needs to be done' T asks how considering LL is in the property and says no. no resolve on this matter. T asks estate agent to meet up for end of tenancy check out, agent says just drop keys back to office.

    Tenancy ends. T asks for return of deposit. Estate agent says LL is on holiday and will get back to her asap. Nearly one month later T receives bill for £700 worth deduction to deposit. Part of teh email says 'the new tenants have reported'.

    I'm thinking:

    1) Deposit or deduction should have been made known sooner. I've asked my friend which scheme it's in.
    2) Agent might just be bad at job OR pulling a fast one which is why he didn't meet for the check out
    3) LL should not have been in the property
    4) Not sure whether T should have brought in her end of tenancy cleaners anyway I can't answer her on this question.
    5) It appears agent / LL brought in cleaners before the end of tenancy to ensure the property was in good condition for new tenants - they moved in the first or second 'void' day, if you consider 24 hours or 48 hours a 'void' period!


    She'll dispute at least some of the deductions, but I wonder about this and whether she can dispute all. If LL took back possession before the end of tenancy they could have caused damage, or indeed the new tenants reporting their own damage. They didn't let her clean / sharpen the place up. It's a hard spot for her.

    Any thoughts from you all?

    #2
    Does the T have any written record of instructions from LL or agent? How do you know LL or agent brought in cleaners and that they were brought in before end of tenancy? What does AST say about the check out and cleaning? What does it say about LL entering property?

    Sounds like it needs to go to arbitration with the deposit scheme to resolve.

    Sounds like your T friend needs to be a much more informed T from now on.

    Comment


      #3
      The tenancy doesn't end until it ends (if you see what I mean), so the tenant not living there for a few days has no effect).

      Your friend should dispute anything she's not happy with and dispute any cleaning charges on the basis the landlord told her not to clean.
      I suspect that they won't be believed - as it would be a very odd conversation to have!
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        The T has test message exchange with agent who says ' if LL says cancel the clean, then that's ok'. They had a long converation about it.

        The T knows the cleaners went in before end of as she met them in there when she went to return duvets etc she had washed.

        We say that T needed to be more informed, but what should she have done? She says she reported to the estate agent she was surpried to see LL there, LL did not request permission and neither did estate agent.

        Seems instead that they took over posession of the property to get in ready for a very quick handover, didn't allow her to fulfil her T obligations at move out in the process and then they are now charging her for that.

        I have always waited till the last day and met with tenant, checkd property with them, agreed inventory, collectd their keys and wished them well as we close he door behind us. Then yes, maybe it's a week or two before new tenants move in, but all is done, meter readings etc agreed.

        Comment


          #5
          Re strange conversation to have. Yes, i thought so too. She said when she went to theproerty expctin it t be empty she nearly jumped out ofher skin to see a man and woman sitting in the kitchen diner chattingby candlelight. Looked like a romantic moment! hat was LL and maybe he just wanted the plae back to continue romance and didn't wnt to b bothered by a cleaner? My friend is a neat ish person anyway, so LL probably just felt omfortable with letting the agents do their clean. Who knows? My friend said LL said'no ,save yourseld some money and cancel'

          Comment


            #6
            Sorry for typos, my laptop skips letters at times....

            Comment


              #7
              If the landlord was in the property before the end of the tenancy, I would start to use expressions like "illegal eviction" and "possible trespass" in my communication with the landlord/agent.
              I would be making the point that because the landlord and others were in the property without the tenant's permission, there's no telling who did any damage.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                Had the 'friend' T given due notice to end the T on a speciic date?
                Did LL/his cleaner enter before that date or make an arrangement to enter?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't know anything about when the notice was given to leave - does this influence things?

                  She tells me she told agent she was moving out a few days before, but that she'd need to do cleaning etc. So I do not think she gave permission to enter. I imagine not anyway as she says was shocked to see LL in the property. The LL and cleaner definitely entered before the end of tenancy which was 13th. They were there three or four days before that.

                  "I would be making the point that because the landlord and others were in the property without the tenant's permission, there's no telling who did any damage."

                  I said something like that to her. It's just strange to me. The agent is from a national chain. It surprises me things went the way they did. What is she to do in the situation the LL says not to bring in cleaners if LL is already in the property?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If the tenancy had a fixed term which didn't end until the 13th (of November?), the tenant can't give notice before that date anyway, so it doesn't matter.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It was periodic, I know that much. I believe that is not an issue.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Conflicted View Post
                        It was periodic, I know that much. I believe that is not an issue.
                        In which case, it does matter.
                        The tenant's notice during a periodic tenancy is meant to end at the end of a rental period, but the tenant and landlord can agree a different date if they want to.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          If the landlord was in the property before the end of the tenancy, I would start to use expressions like "illegal eviction" ...
                          That is where my thoughts were going.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            and exactly what I meant by being a more informed tenant. We had a tenant give notice to leave mid December but told us she wanted to move her stuff out on the 1st of December. I said fine but let her know that she was still entirely responsible for the property. I had to do viewings and some DIY but even though she wasn't there, I got her permission and gave her 24 hours' notice every time I went in. I did not do the checkout with her until the day her period expired. I then cleaned the entire place myself after she'd literally walked out having handed me the key (she'd cleaned it to inventory standard but I wanted a higher standard for my inventory for next tenant).

                            This is the process that LL should have gone through. If not, then T has legal right to argue that LL has breached terms of AST in place at the time. If they're now being threatened with unreasonable deposit claim, a threat to approach a solicitor to pursue illegal eviction is highly likely to make the LL reconsider.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks! This will be helpful and empowering for her

                              Comment

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