Advice needed on renewal fees

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Yes, a renewal fee is still payable by the tenant up until 31st May 2020. if you look up the guidance for tenants regarding the tenant fees act 2019 on the GOV.uk site you can find it on page 5.
    On the other hand, they can only serve notice to end the tenancy at the landlord's instruction and i doubt he cares about the agency fee. Please also bare in mind the TFA2019 only applies to AST tenancies.

    Comment


      #32
      The tenants fee act applies to lodgers as well as tenants.

      And it applies to all new tenancies - and a new tenancy agreement being signed creates a new tenancy.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #33
        A renewal of the tenancy is not a new tenancy as the terms of the original tenancy agreement apply, save and except for the terms set out in the Addendum / Memorandum of Agreement.
        And FYI, TFA2019 does not apply to Non-Ast tenancies.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Jo901 View Post
          A renewal of the tenancy is not a new tenancy as the terms of the original tenancy agreement apply, save and except for the terms set out in the Addendum / Memorandum of Agreement.
          In this case, there isn't an old tenancy and some kind of addendum, there's a completely new tenancy agreement, so it will be a new tenancy.
          And, depending on the content of an addendum, it's likely that a new tenancy is created.
          It might meet the definition of a "follow on" tenancy for some legislation, but it's a new tenancy.

          Given that it isn't possible to extend a tenancy, what do you think happens when an addendum is signed if a new tenancy isn't created?

          And FYI, TFA2019 does not apply to Non-Ast tenancies.
          Tenant Fees Act 2019 s28 Interpretation
          “tenant” includes—
          (a)a person who proposes to be a tenant under a tenancy,
          (b)a person who has ceased to be a tenant under a tenancy,
          (c)a licensee under a licence to occupy housing,
          (d)a person who proposes to be a licensee under a licence to occupy housing, and
          (e)a person who has ceased to be a licensee under a licence to occupy housing;
          and
          tenancy” means—
          (a)an assured shorthold tenancy other than—
          (i)a tenancy of social housing, or
          (ii)a tenancy which is a long lease,
          (b)a tenancy which meets the conditions set out in paragraph 8 (lettings to students) of Schedule 1 to the Housing Act 1988, or
          (c)a licence to occupy housing
          This is from the government's guidelines for landords.
          Which types of tenancy does the ban apply to?
          The ban applies to assured shorthold tenancies (except social housing or long leases), tenancies of student accommodation and licences to occupy housing in the private rented sector in England. Most tenancies in the private rented sector are assured shorthold tenancies.
          In this guidance ‘tenant’ includes licensees. ‘Relevant persons’ are any persons acting on behalf of a tenant or licensee or guaranteeing the rent.
          What is an assured shorthold tenancy?
          A tenancy is likely to be an assured shorthold tenancy if all the following apply:
          • the property is rented privately
          • the tenancy started on or after 28 February 1997
          • the property is the person’s main accommodation
          • the landlord doesn’t live in the property
          What is a licence to occupy housing?
          A licence is personal permission for someone to occupy accommodation. A licence can be fixed term or periodic (usually rolling month-to-month).
          The main instances where someone might have a licence rather than a tenancy agreement are where:
          • there is no intention to enter into a legal relationship (e.g. a friend you invite to house sit while you’re on holiday)
          there is no right to exclusive occupation (e.g. they are a lodger)
          • the arrangement is a service occupancy (e.g. where an employee is required to occupy the accommodation under their contact as it is essential for performance of their duties).
          So it covers excluded occupants, lodgers and probably even property guardians.
          Last edited by jpkeates; 20-02-2020, 10:25 AM. Reason: Added the government guidance
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #35
            Just to make it clearer for you, Non-Ast tenancies mean the ones that fall outside of the Housing Act:
            -Rent over 100k
            -resident landlord
            -company let
            For the above the TFA2019 does not apply.

            https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-2019-guidance
            Have a look at the guide, page 5. Maybe it will help you understand what I'm referring to...

            A new tenancy would mean there are new tenants. If the same tenants continue to live in the property, this would be a renewal. Please not I have refereed to it as a renewal not an extension.

            Comment


              #36
              Also, it does not say on the post that they have offered a new contract, but a further 12 months fixed term. The tenant has contacted the renewals team, which means it's a renewal, right?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Jo901 View Post
                Just to make it clearer for you, Non-Ast tenancies mean the ones that fall outside of the Housing Act:
                -Rent over 100k
                -resident landlord
                -company let
                For the above the TFA2019 does not apply.
                Sorry, I missed your point - I agree that two of those tenancies are not included in the Tenant Fees Act scope.
                Some tenancies with a resident landlord can be ASTs, and would be in scope.

                A new tenancy would mean there are new tenants. If the same tenants continue to live in the property, this would be a renewal. Please not I have refereed to it as a renewal not an extension.
                It isn't possible to extend a tenancy, so what is a "renewal" if it isn't a new tenancy?

                It might be part of a single ongoing arrangement for occupation, with the same landlord, tenants and property, but it will have to be a new tenancy,
                In the same way that a Statutory Periodic Tenancy created automatically at the end of a fixed term is a new tenancy, with the same landlord, tenants and property.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #38
                  This agent sounds like a right chancer. You need to contact the landlord directly as the agent will be informing the landlord that you are refusing to sign a new tenancy, when infact you are more than happy to, just not pay the fee which has now been made illegal. i would also report the agent to their relevant regulatory body. you can bet they are trying this to every tenant and there will be a fair few who are unaware of the new changes to tenant fees.

                  The landlord insurance story is likely to be a load of old guff too.

                  You can request the landlord details from the agent, they have 21 days in which to provide it, do not accept the agents crap about you not being allowed to know the landlord details. This is your right and is protected by civil and believe it or not criminal law.

                  Also a renewal is a new tenancy, not a continuation as thats not possible. You cant bind someone to terms and conditions of an old tenancy that has expired, only by whats detailed in the new one.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Thank you for the further replies, it's all learning for me and I definitely appreciate it.

                    UPDATE:

                    Same agent phoned me again today, as LL is hassling them for an update. I told him the same thing I said yesterday and he basically said that they will have to issue a S21, as the LL is unhappy that the tenancy has lapsed onto a periodic in the first place and wishes he has been told sooner. Anyway I told him I wanted to speak to the branch manager - he put me straight through. She tells me that she thought that I would not accept the term due to the LL increasing the rent! Absolute rubbish of course and I did pay last month rent including the increase stated on the new unsigned fixed term. Cutting to the chase, it ended up being a patronising cycle just like with the other agent and I quote: "I can assure you, this is not a new tenancy and the landlord needs to agree a new fixed term for his insurance. We are the largest estate agents in the UK and we would never charge illegal fees". She says that it is not a new tenancy because they aren't charging for a new deposit and referencing etc like they do when you take on a new property.

                    Also, they are refusing to fix the heating in the meantime, as myself and my 6 year old now have 1 working heater in a 2 bedroom apartment. Its an all electric apartment block and all but one of the heaters is knackered according to the contractor they sent out last week. This is the only repair/issue I have had to report in two years. Wish I could recommend the agent who property manages the other two apartments on my floor, as they are brilliant and do regular inspections etc but it's not really my place to mention this to the LL.

                    I have posted an apologetic letter to LL today and raised a formal complaint with the company the agent belongs to.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Its entirely possible for large letting agents to get things wrong, (google foxtons case). However, you should be aware that while members arguments above may be technically correct, you could end up losing your home if you press these points as at the end of the day the landlord is more likely to side with the agent that's acting for them.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by GJL24 View Post
                        the landlord needs to agree a new fixed term for his insurance.
                        Ask to see the policy wording that makes this so.

                        None of my policies have ever required this.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
                          you should be aware that while members arguments above may be technically correct, you could end up losing your home if you press these points as at the end of the day the landlord is more likely to side with the agent that's acting for them.
                          You make a really good point there. I know it's a gamble and I risk the LL just going sod it, get me a new tenant, but I need to see it through. Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

                          Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                          Ask to see the policy wording that makes this so. None of my policies have ever required this.
                          I didn't think that was allowed? Even so, I guess if the LL really wants fixed term tenants and the guarantee of rent for another year then fair play to him.

                          UPDATE 21/02/2020

                          Branch manager email "Can you please confirm how you are wanting to proceed?
                          Your landlord has requested a fixed term tenancy with an increase in the rent & with no cost to yourself."

                          I'm wary that this is just a rehash of what they said about LL paying the fee, then charging it back through the rent. I have replied that I will sign for the new term once the heating has been fixed. Staying with family at the moment because it's just too cold.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by GJL24 View Post
                            Staying with family at the moment because it's just too cold.
                            What's the temperature? May as well make a complaint to the council. If the LL get served with an improvement notice, then no s21 notice for 6 months. (I am assuming that your complaint to the LL/LA about it was in writing.)
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by GJL24 View Post

                              I didn't think that was allowed?
                              I presume that the tenancy agreement contains clauses that reference LL insurance (e.g. not to do anything that would invalidate LL insurance).

                              You can only comply if you know what the insurance terms are.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X