Owner-occupier dies; does lodger become tenant?

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  • Owner-occupier dies; does lodger become tenant?

    Owner occupier rents a room in their house to a tenant for donkeys years.

    Owner occupier then dies. Does the tenant then become protected in anyway. i.e. can whoever inherits get VP?

  • #2
    Originally posted by ah84 View Post
    Owner occupier rents a room in their house to a tenant for donkeys years.

    Owner occupier then dies. Does the tenant then become protected in anyway. i.e. can whoever inherits get VP?
    1. Owner-occupier (O) is resident L.
    2. So T is only a lodger at best.
    3. O's executors (E) step into O's shoes. They should succeed to his rights.
    4. T's status cannot spontaneously improve merely because O dies.
    5. E should take action asap to evict T as lodger. A simple Notice (non-statutory) ought to be sufficient. e acquires O's right to remove T and gain vacant possession- unless there are any other circumstantial reasons why this cannot be so.
    6. Alternatively, E could offer to grant a new AST to T.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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    • #3
      Usually, as soon as LL is not resident at property as main home, lodger would have tenancy rights; he would be tenant of his room, with the rest of the house still being 'shared'. What happens after death in your case, do not know.

      Wots VP ?
      All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bel View Post
        Usually, as soon as LL is not resident at property as main home, lodger would have tenancy rights; he would be tenant of his room, with the rest of the house still being 'shared'. What happens after death in your case, do not know.

        Wots VP ?
        VP= vacant possession.

        Why do you think that T acquires a tenancy? Once a lodger, always a lodger.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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        • #5
          Thanks Jeffrey.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            VP= vacant possession.

            Why do you think that T acquires a tenancy? Once a lodger, always a lodger.
            If LL moves to another house, and lodger stays, he becomes tenant as LL no longer resident.
            All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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            • #7
              You're missing the point Bel that Jeffery is making
              The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

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              • #8
                Distinguish between:
                a. lodger (so it is not a tenancy); and
                b. T sharing with resident L (so it is a tenancy but not within 1988 Act).

                In case 'a', lodger is never granted a tenancy so never becomes T (even if L moves out or dies).
                In case 'b', T is unprotected by Act for so long as L resides too. If L moves out or dies, T then regains Act's protection.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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                • #9
                  I'm in a hurry, but see http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/br...5918&aid=34768

                  See bit at bottom about when LL dies.
                  All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bel View Post
                    I'm in a hurry, but see http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/br...5918&aid=34768

                    See bit at bottom about when LL dies.
                    Irrelevant. It simply tells you what I told you (re case 'b' in my last post). i.e. that the type of tenancy can fluctuate.
                    Either way, a lodger canot spontaneously acquire tennancy rights.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What do you define a lodger as Jeffrey?
                      All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bel View Post
                        What do you define a lodger as, Jeffrey?
                        There's no statutory definition. I'd suggest that a lodger is an occupier given a personal non-assignable licence to occupy an unspecified room with no intention to create any legal estate or interest (to avoid which, the lodger should be granted the licence only for an unspecified room to be selected- and which may be changed to another room- at the absolute discretion of the owner).
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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                        • #13
                          Now you are just being awkward with the old legalese Jeffrey!!!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            There's no statutory definition. I'd suggest that a lodger is an occupier given a personal non-assignable licence to occupy an unspecified room with no intention to create any legal estate or interest (to avoid which, the lodger should be granted the licence only for an unspecified room to be selected- and which may be changed to another room- at the absolute discretion of the owner).

                            Yes, but when the intention of the owner changes, ie. they decide to live elsewhere, i do not believe the lodger remains as a lodger (licencee), unless the LL is very careful.

                            If so many LLs would use this technique to deprive tenants of their rights; by living there to start with and creating a sham licence agreement, before moving out after a couple of weeks.

                            For the lodger to remain a licencee; I believe the LL would need to show a service is being provided regularly, such as changing and washing the bedding or make the lodger share a bedroom with another lodger not of their chosing.
                            All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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                            You can search the forums here:

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                            • #15
                              True, but it cannot be a lease or tenancy if the premises are not specified- letting one room, without precision, can only be a licence.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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