Is eviction under Section 21 possible here

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Is eviction under Section 21 possible here

    We inherited a residential property that had tenants in both ground floor and first floors flats of a converted house.
    This property was rented out to current tenants for approx 5 years.
    we have an 1year Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement that ran out 01/08/19.
    we obtained first landlords Gas Cert on 08/11/18 and just renewed the next / current one.
    we obtained *First Ever* EPC on 04/09/19
    we gave tenant Section 21 notice on 27/09/19
    One of the tenants has said he will not leave until eviction order.
    Will our failure to obtain either / both EPC and Gas Cert prior to signing last expired Tenancy Agreement prohibit a court order under an claim for Accelerated process order ?
    any advice appreciated
    thanks

    #2
    When did each tenant first move in?
    That is what determines need for documents to validate a S21 notice, not the latest tenancy.

    EPC and How to Rent can be served at any time for S21 purposes (but there are other laws that you have probably broken).
    Serving GSC before tenant occupies the property cannot be rectified (subject to an appeal that I believe is scheduled for January 2020) if it was required.

    Please give dates for initial fixed-term tenancy and latest fixed-term renewal for each tenant

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Simonb? View Post
      we gave tenant Section 21 notice on 27/09/19
      I presume that you mean you served separate S21 and H2R (and obtained and served separate GSCs and EPCs) on the tenant of each of the two flats and that all documents were served at least 1 day before S21.

      Comment


        #4
        Hi
        thanks for replies.
        As mentioned earlier we inherited this property and my mothers paperwork was not great.
        Only the first floor flat has informed us she is not moving out.
        The ground floor flat has told us they are leaving.
        As far as we can establish first floor flat has been there since 2013- but no paperwork!
        Both EPC and H2R were given approx 3 weeks prior to S21.
        last Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement 1year
        Expired 01/08/19.
        im guessing my mother used 1 year AST agreements but cant find any paperwork after her death last year.
        Probably first ever Gas Cert 08/11/18 and renewed 04/11/19
        thanks in advance

        Comment


          #5
          When did you inherit the Property (precise date)?
          Done any LL trainiing?

          Comment


            #6
            Hi
            is this helpful?:

            My mothers died 19th October 2018
            The properties are in ltd co.
            My siblings and I held some shares in Ltd co but never director etc
            no income from Ltd
            never visited property until her death.
            probate cert for my mothers estate was April 2019
            whats “LL training “?

            Comment


              #7
              I think you inherited the company, not the property, i.e. there has been no change of landlord.

              LL Training refers to taking courses on how to be an effective landlord and avoid legal pitfalls. LL = landlord.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                I think you inherited the company, not the property, i.e. there has been no change of landlord.

                LL Training refers to taking courses on how to be an effective landlord and avoid legal pitfalls. LL = landlord.
                Thanks

                i think from my amateurish paper trail above, its obv i have not had any Landlord training.
                After this i hope to no longer be a landlord.
                we want to refurbish it and move in to it.
                Given all the above is it likely that an application for an accelerated possession order will succeed?

                Comment


                  #9
                  The company is the landlord (on basis of what you said). Please confirm property land registry shows owner to be company not your late relative.

                  To get paperwork perfect, get trained up the offer tenant who does not want to leave a NEW 6 month AST at a LOWER rent. If agreed serve all relevant paperwork 1st then get AST signed. Hopefully tenant signs, wait 6 months, company evicts it's tenant.
                  I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yes i confirm the details at Land Registry are still The Property Co, so no change in reg ownership.

                    As we are approaching end of S21 period is it stupid to try and pursue the application for accelerated court order given my paperwork above?

                    isnt the only downside of pursing ( and failing this course) is
                    then going back to a new 6 month AST after rejection by court.

                    Yet upside of pursuing my current course is potentially awarded Acellerated possession order? Is this def going to fail??

                    isnt there a risk of change in legislation that could mean this possession process becomes harder otherside of election??

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Simonb? View Post
                      The ground floor flat has told us they are leaving.
                      Is that by Notice to Quit from the tenant or an informal notification in response to a S21?


                      Originally posted by Simonb? View Post
                      As far as we can establish first floor flat has been there since 2013- but no paperwork!
                      Both EPC and H2R were given approx 3 weeks prior to S21.
                      last Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement 1year
                      Expired 01/08/19.
                      Then it is likely that you fall foul of the requirement to have served GSC before the tenant occupied because
                      • it applies to new tenancies since 1 October 2015, and
                      • you certainly have no evidence that GSC was served before the latest fixed term tenancy
                      • but you might be saved if the appeal (January 28 or 29) of "Trecarrell House Limited v Rouncefield" (see for example https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2019/02/no-release-from-gas/) decides that "before occupation" means "before occupation under latest tenancy" AND a SPT is considered to be "the latest tenancy".
                      So, it is likely that ANY S21 notice served would be found invalid: almost certainly before the Trecarell appeal and possibly after that appeal, depending on the outcome and the issues considered.

                      It is possible that the fact you inherited the property may help you, depending on the date you became the owner.

                      [edit]Having seen the posts that came in whilst I was composing the above, it seems the owner and LL never changed (because property is owned by a company and you inherited part of that company).

                      The existence of the company structure may make a judge less sympathetic to your position (your mother was astute enough to set up a company to attempt to protect her interests, but did not bother determining the laws and regulations that applied to the company's business).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                        To get paperwork perfect, get trained up the offer tenant who does not want to leave a NEW 6 month AST at a LOWER rent. If agreed serve all relevant paperwork 1st then get AST signed. Hopefully tenant signs, wait 6 months, company evicts it's tenant.
                        I believe that would not help, given the current understanding of the law by the courts (following Monty Shooltz decision).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MdeB View Post

                          I believe that would not help, given the current understanding of the law by the courts (following Monty Shooltz decision).
                          So theres no way to get her out?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Who is named as LL on the s21?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              On section s21 page 3 ( form 6a)
                              “Name and address of landlord.. to be signed and dated by landlord or their agent”
                              its got my personal details not company details
                              Im the co agent


                              are you beginning to detect my fear????

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X