Notice Period

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    Notice Period

    Hi,

    I'm hoping someone can advise.

    We've been renting our property since 27/07/09, initially for a term of 12 months after which it was never renewed. The initial contract states the following:

    'To end this agreement two months written notice will need to be given by either party via Castle Homes. Such notice may be given from the fourth month or any time after and must be given in conjunction with the rental due dates. If no notice is received this agreement will automatically become a periodic tenancy agreement upon its renewal date and all the condition's as set out above will remain in force'

    We now wish to end the agreement but I'm getting conflicting information both online and from the agent about whether we have to give the 2 months notice or not or whether we can get away with 1.

    My understanding is that we are no longer on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy but on a Periodic Tenancy (The latest rent review states Assured Periodic Tenancy) we only have to give 1 months notice.

    Could someone please confirm which is correct?

    Many thanks

    Darren - Derbyshire

    #2
    The question here is whether there is enough to create a contractual periodic tenancy, rather than its lapsing into a statutory one.

    Also, please remove the name of the business.

    Comment


      #3
      How does the tenancy agreement define the first 12 months of the tenancy.
      Something like a Fixed Term that ends on date xxx/xx/xxxx or an initial tern of 12 months?

      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        leaseholder64 The lettings agent have changed their name since we started the agreement, that's why I was not too bothered about using it, also I would remove it but can't find out how to edit the post.

        As it only states that it will automatically become a periodic tenancy agreement then I'm presuming that its statutory. I've also found this about contractual periodic tenancy
        • 1) By making it clear in the original tenancy agreement that the tenancy will become a “contractual periodic tenancy” after the fixed period (the word “contractual” should be stated). - NO mention on contractual any where
        • 2) By getting the tenant to sign a periodic tenancy agreement when the fixed term contract is shortly due to expire, so it will get overtaken by the new periodic tenancy agreement. - Only signed the original agreement
        • 3) It is possible start a tenancy with a periodic tenancy rather than a fixed term of 6 months or 12 months. You can do this by giving the tenant an initial term of just one month (or a week) and then just allowing it to run on. However, bear in mind you cannot serve notice to the tenant for at least 6 months, because they are still protected by their statutory rights which stipulates a shorthold tenancy cannot be shorter than 6 months. This can only be overturned if there is a mutual agreement by the landlord and tenant for the tenancy to end. - N/A
        @jpkeates

        The agreement states:

        Term: for the term of 12 months commencing on 27th July 2009

        Darren

        Comment


          #5
          That doesnt sound like a wholly reliable source. I think from all you've said it would probably take a judge to decide, so why dont you give notice in line with an SPT and explain to the agent that you believe this is all that is legally required, and then see how they react. If they are robust in their assertion that its a CPT and will see you in court you can take a view about whether to increase the notice. I would be surprised if they did though as it's a poorly worded and ambiguous document if that was their intention.

          Comment


            #6
            I'm not sure which bits are in the tenancy agreement and which bits you're quoting from somewhere else?

            If the only bits from the contract are "for the term of 12 months" and "automatically become a periodic tenancy", then that's clearly a fixed term only tenancy, and hence now SPT.
            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by KTC View Post
              If the only bits from the contract are "for the term of 12 months" and "automatically become a periodic tenancy", then that's clearly a fixed term only tenancy, and hence now SPT.
              I am veering to the same conclusion, but have yet to convince myself 100%. The drafting is a bit of a nightmare to unravel.

              Comment


                #8
                • 1) By making it clear in the original tenancy agreement that the tenancy will become a “contractual periodic tenancy” after the fixed period (the word “contractual” should be stated).

                I agree that the agreement needs to be clear, but not that he word “contractual” should be stated.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Derren , you srill have an AST, but we are trying to decide if it is a Statutory or Periodic Tenancy.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dazzadog View Post
                    leaseholder64 1) By making it clear in the original tenancy agreement that the tenancy will become a “contractual periodic tenancy” after the fixed period (the word “contractual” should be stated).
                    It is not necessary for the word "contractual" to be stated.

                    It is contractual because the wording of the contract says it will happen.

                    As an example, the High Court accepted that
                    the landlord agrees to let the premises known as…..for a term of [6 or 12] months and thereafter continuing on a monthly basis unless terminated by either party under the provisions of Clause 3
                    meant hat the tenancy became contractual periodic at the end of the initial term (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2016/1839.html "Leeds v. Broadley").

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mariner View Post
                      Derren , you srill have an AST, but we are trying to decide if it is a Statutory or Periodic Tenancy.
                      That should be "Statutory or Contractual Periodic Tenancy".

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Correct, well spotted.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just to be clear, the choice isn't between one and two months.
                          If the tenancy is a contractual periodic tenancy, it would be two months if that's what the original tenancy agreement required.
                          If it's a statutory periodic tenancy, it's a minimum of a month ending at the end of a tenancy period (which sounds like the 26th of the month).

                          Practically, I would suggest that the agent/landlord don't really want a tenancy to end over the Christmas holidays and so you should give notice now to end on 26th November.
                          If the legal brains here can't be sure it's a contractual tenancy or not, I doubt the agent/landlord would want to go legal to try and enforce it.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If the tenancy is contractual I think it is in fact monthly because (assuming the rent days are monthly) it can be ended in any month, that is on 12 days in the year. If it was two monthly it could only be ended on 6 days in the year. What we would have is monthly tenancy (because the periods are monthly) which requires two months' notice - such a thing is possible.

                            However, that is not important as the point is that either the tenancy is contractual and two months' notice is needed or it is statutory and (assuming the rent is paid monthly) one month's notice is given. JPK's suggestion is fine, but overlooks the point that that if there is a deposit an adjudicator may find in the landlord's favour. I expect that if Dazzadog pays two months' rent he will want two months' occupation. Another snag is that if he gives a month's notice when he should have given two that he will then have to give two month's notice meaning yet another month's rent will be payable. I think the answer is to give one month's notice and then the next day two months' notice.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                              I think the answer is to give one month's notice and then the next day two months' notice.
                              One notice with an appropriately worded saving clause?
                              I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                              I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                              Comment

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