s21 abolishment reversed?

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    s21 abolishment reversed?

    Had a look but couldn't see any posts about this article....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9155126.html

    #2
    Speculation,

    What is in a government manifesto (which is basically what the Queens Speech is) is usually somewhat removed from what actually happens, especially when that government is looking at an election.

    Comment


      #3
      We presume that any government seeking re-election right now would not want to harm tenants (or at least the majority of tenants who are decent folk) even further. Since abolition of S21 would have a massive negative impact on tenants we presume this will not be progressed.

      Comment


        #4
        Abolition of s21 is not seen by the majority of tenants as a bad thing.......
        I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

        I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by KTC View Post
          Abolition of s21 is not seen by the majority of tenants as a bad thing.......
          Well you can get whatever answer you want by asking the wrong question. Presenting a small part of a package deal of causes and effects as if it were the whole thing will get a bizarre answer.

          Do you want £100? A good idea -- Yes, or No.

          I have faith that most people are not so stupid and have at least some grasp of history and basic logic/economics.

          Comment


            #6
            Abolition of s21 is not welcomed by most LLs.
            It could result in many LLs selling up with Councils currently unable to 'take up the slack'.

            Comment


              #7
              Is there really a market for houses to be left empty after purchase, except n central London? Unless there is is, prices will drop to the point where either the landlord thinks it is better to hold out until prices recover, or the better off tenants find it possible to become owner occupiers. Basically you suggesting there will be a run on the bank of buy to let housing.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                Is there really a market for houses to be left empty after purchase, except n central London? Unless there is is, prices will drop to the point where either the landlord thinks it is better to hold out until prices recover, or the better off tenants find it possible to become owner occupiers. Basically you suggesting there will be a run on the bank of buy to let housing.
                Yes that is exactly what will happen.

                Prices are long overdue for a fall - and it will be unfortunate if the abolition of S21 was the trigger (instead of the gradual increase in interest rates which should have occurred over the past 5 years). On the income side, rental yields at the moment are such that they are not really covering long-term costs when things go even slightly wrong in many properties (London in particular). If the cost/risk of renting exceeds rental yields, staying empty for long periods might well be the least worst option. Prices will fall. Those who will be most adversely affected will be all those kids who were told it was a great idea to go out and buy homes on 95% mortgages.

                Sensible renters will not be snapping up those properties anytime soon either, because anyone sensible realises that right now that yields and likely capital growth are such that it is far far cheaper to rent than to buy despite the political hype about big bad landlords.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Queens speech is about legislation that is ready to go.

                  Abolition of S21 is still in the "thinking about how to do it" stage.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    AFAIK the Queen's Speech is just HMGs wish list of planned legislation.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I am just about to negotiate a new tenancy agreement for 9 months. Does anyone have any feel for whether any later abolition of S21 would apply to contracts before any legislation is passed. My feeling is that the cost balance to me on rent would require about a £100/month rent increase for these tenants over and above that paid by the current tenants.

                      However I would not do that if it will definitely not apply retrospectively to contracts negotiated where S21 is factored in. Any thoughts out there?
                      What of follow-on SPTs? If S21 could be abolished for SPT from an existing tenancy (but perhaps not where served during an existing fixed term) I would also have to increase the rent to balance the risk.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                        However I would not do that if it will definitely not apply retrospectively to contracts negotiated where S21 is factored in. Any thoughts out there?
                        The consultation suggests that the plan is for S21 to remin for existing tenancies.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          New form of tenancies under Housing Act 1988 didn't apply to existing tenancies. New rules for which are the default type of tenancies under Housing Act 1996 didn't apply to existing tenancies. New form of tenancies under the Private Housing (Tenancies) (Scotland) Act 2016 didn't apply to existing tenancies. Changes imposing requirement for landlord to act a certain way at some earlier point in a tenancy (e.g. service of How to Rent) doesn't apply to tenancies from before commencement date or SPT arising from tenancy prior to commencement date.

                          Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 which became law in 18 January 2016 is still not in force. While existing tenancies will convert under that Act, either there are similar grounds for possession, or a number of existing grounds that wouldn't otherwise exist are specially retained for converted tenancies.

                          So, I'd say you're safe.
                          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                            I am just about to negotiate a new tenancy agreement for 9 months.
                            Why 9 months? In a game heavily stacked in the tenants favour, there would have to be an exceptionally good reason for me to commit to anything other than 6 months then periodic.

                            But certainly increase rents (if the market allows) for the threat of eventual scrapping of s21 even though it's doubtful to directly affect current tenancies.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by boletus View Post

                              Why 9 months? In a game heavily stacked in the tenants favour, there would have to be an exceptionally good reason for me to commit to anything other than 6 months then periodic.
                              Sometimes there are reasons.

                              a) If the tenant is staying for a known likely exact period (and you believe them) and that exact period (a course for example) is only very slightly over 6 months, it makes the tenant nervous to have a fixed tenancy that ends in the middle of their exams (even though it should not)

                              b) The L might want to have some control over when the tenancy can end (for example I know that in some properties I can NEVER find a new tenant to start between November and February). Student tenancies are a prime example although I have none really.

                              c) In a joint tenancy, although the other tenants will be liable for rent, L doesn't really want a situation ether when one T leaves the other joint tenants high and dry at end of a fixed period and brief SPT

                              d) I have been burned once with Council tax when a tenancy went periodic, failed to pay and then went to China. It is virtually impossible to prove that a tenancy existed.

                              e) If the tenant wants 7 months, it is actually quite hard to do this with 6+SPT without making special dispensations about notice.

                              I think the broader issue is that legislation completely fails to take account of the reality of tenancy contracts, and assumes that the average tenant is one who walks into a Shelter office, CAB or appears in court. Those are the people who are catered for.

                              Comment

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