Landlord going back on his word to repay rent

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Thanks for taking the trouble to let us know how it ended and what you have learnt.

    Sounds like a decent outcome - if the landlord doen't feel confident enough to defend what they'd done, your greater confidence in what you believed you had agreed was telling.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandomPerson1345
    replied
    ###UPDATE###
    I submitted the Money Claim against my ex landlord and he didn't bother responding to my claim within 21 days.

    On the night of the 4pm deadline I logged onto the money claims website and submitted a County Court Judgement.

    The next day i received a text from my bank which showed the money including costs and interest had been paid to me.


    Thank you for the help and criticism.

    I think the best thing to do is to give advice for people in a similar situation who come across this post:


    As mentioned, i didnt have concrete evidence such as signed documentation stating the exact terms. Make sure to have written emails or a signed document saying the exact terms of you leaving early including how rent will be paid or refunded for the last month. Try to only pay for the days till you leave the property so you wont have to rely on the landlord sending the money.


    if you have a similar situation to mine where you paid in full, the landlord doesn't refund you, and you haven't signed a contract you could ask them for the keys back to the property. If they refuse then they are breaking their part of the original tenancy agreement. Evidence this and it can be used against them.


    Weigh up the cost of the money claim and any court costs and see whether you think it is worth it. For me, the initial cost of £35 allowed me to claim back £500 (original refund, money claim cost, and interest)


    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    But you didn't leave on 7th or 12th, so that's academic.

    You don't appear to have made any meaningful agreement with the landlord about the rent.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandomPerson1345
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

    Fair enough, but that is still totally non specific. You took it to mean a pro-rata calculation but it does not have to mean that at all. To be clear, I am very sympathetic and you may win -- but it is all rather fuzzy and ill-defined. There is no such thing as a daily rent in your contract (or in law) so it means nothing at all unless defined as part of a surrender agreement (which would include stuff like liability for utilities, heating costs, council tax).

    A bit like saying to your local supermarket "I am going to pay for the apple I have eaten so far" - they might think they sell only whole apples, you want to pay for the full apples and a bit of one you nibbled by weight. But part nibbled apples is not something they sell.
    In context with what he said verbally he did mean that I would not have to owe rent for the days that I was not in the property. There is no such thing as a daily rent but he did ask me to leave on a the 7th and 12th which would have completely over-ridden the tenancy agreement notice period with the agreement that I would not have to pay rent for the remaining days in my contract.

    With your analogy I would add that if the supermarket offered a pro rata refund of the apple I nibbled on even though it isnt what they normally sell and I gave them the apple back because of this, then they should give me the pro rata refund because that was what the offer was.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    To be clear, OP, you might well have been misled -- but you are being told here that if it comes to court you will probably lose.

    To take the flip side of this, landlords spend all their time having to deal with the letter of the law, and increasingly convoluted and bizarre law at that -- where what tenants sign up to by way of contract hardly matters (even to the extent of having tenants stay on for a year without paying rent until the court system winds its way through). You are dealing with a system, devised by politicians, where common decency, and even the decency due to an open and free competitive market, has been driven out for many people (tenants and those who provide flexible accommodation as a service).

    In the past I have almost always worked closely with tenants to make sure that their end date can be as flexible as possible. The new tenant fees act means that if I do this now I will be screwed -- so there is no incentive for me any longer. Your landlord had absolutely nothing to gain by agreeing an early end date mid-month with you -- and everything to lose (and at the very least he lost perhaps £150 in Council Tax).

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    From a land law perspective, rent ceases to be due when the tenancy ends.
    From a contract perspective rent is due when the contract says it is.

    In most tenancy agreements rent is defined as being in advance and due on day x of the month.
    There's no mechanism for a rebate in any circumstances.

    Unless you can show that the landlord agreed a rebate (and some idea of what that was), I think you're going to struggle with your claim.
    I haven't seen anything posted that looks like that.

    On the other hand, people don't like going to court, so your claim might trigger a payment simply to make you go away.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by MdeB View Post

    What is your problem?

    OP says that proper notice was given , but OP departed early at the request of the LL on the promise (apparently orally and in email) that rent would be refunded for the days OP was not in occupation.
    It does not say that in anything I have read actually

    Leave a comment:


  • nukecad
    replied
    Rent calculation we can do till the day you stay in the flat
    That's your whole problem.

    He's done his calculation till the day you stayed in the flat, and he's calculated that as that date was partway through a rental period then you have left early but you still have to pay for the whole rental period.

    That is standard practice in the rental business, (and in law unless there is a specific agreement otherwise, your agreement wasn't specific enough).

    You may be lucky and he may pay some back pro-rata, but legally he doesn't have to.

    Leave a comment:


  • MdeB
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
    you gave short notice, escaped some council tax due, and got your whole deposit back
    What is your problem?

    OP says that proper notice was given , but OP departed early at the request of the LL on the promise (apparently orally and in email) that rent would be refunded for the days OP was not in occupation.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by RandomPerson1345 View Post
    I did mention in the original post "landlord said verbally and over email that "Rent calculation we can do till the day you stay in the flat" "
    Fair enough, but that is still totally non specific. You took it to mean a pro-rata calculation but it does not have to mean that at all. To be clear, I am very sympathetic and you may win -- but it is all rather fuzzy and ill-defined. There is no such thing as a daily rent in your contract (or in law) so it means nothing at all unless defined as part of a surrender agreement (which would include stuff like liability for utilities, heating costs, council tax).

    A bit like saying to your local supermarket "I am going to pay for the apple I have eaten so far" - they might think they sell only whole apples, you want to pay for the full apples and a bit of one you nibbled by weight. But part nibbled apples is not something they sell.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandomPerson1345
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

    This is a very minor issue, but that is not correct. Pre-payment meters (which I have never used) also have a standing (daily) charge just like usual utility payments.
    It is a minor issue, I was with utilita which are one of the few which don't charge a daily rate for electricity (the flat didnt have gas)

    Leave a comment:


  • RandomPerson1345
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

    That is really really soft information. The fact that all parties might have regarded the tenancy as ended has nothing really to do with payment.



    Before you said there was nothing in writing, and moreover that it was possibly contingent on a new tenant. E-mails are not exactly hard evidence and easily forged, but ....



    That doesn't really help you.
    If he regarded the tenancy as over, it compounds with the other evidence of him saying that the rent can be paid for only the days that i was in the flat.

    I did mention in the original post "landlord said verbally and over email that "Rent calculation we can do till the day you stay in the flat" "
    Emails can easily be forged but that would mean lying in court.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by RandomPerson1345 View Post
    The utilities were prepayment so i wont owe that, he changed this to be under his name to top up the account.
    This is a very minor issue, but that is not correct. Pre-payment meters (which I have never used) also have a standing (daily) charge just like usual utility payments.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by amy131 View Post
    When I arrange for the DPS to issue repayment of a deposit I need to enter the end date of the tenancy. I advise contacting the scheme they used to check what they have recorded in this respect.
    That is really really soft information. The fact that all parties might have regarded the tenancy as ended has nothing really to do with payment.

    Originally posted by RandomPerson1345 View Post
    But, the landlord proactively asked me to move out on the 7th or the 12th July saying in the same email that i would only need to pay rent for the days i was in the property.
    Before you said there was nothing in writing, and moreover that it was possibly contingent on a new tenant. E-mails are not exactly hard evidence and easily forged, but ....

    Originally posted by RandomPerson1345 View Post
    He wasn't just showing people around, he turned it from an unfurnished property to a furnished property.
    That doesn't really help you.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandomPerson1345
    replied
    Originally posted by amy131 View Post
    When I arrange for the DPS to issue repayment of a deposit I need to enter the end date of the tenancy. I advise contacting the scheme they used to check what they have recorded in this respect. As you say the landlord may not challenge the claim. If you go through the small claims process, which it seems you will need to do now, there will be a small fee to pay which will be repaid to you if you win. This is currently £70 if you submit online. Include any evidence you have and your own account of what happened.
    That sounds like perfect advice, Thanks. Ill phone them tomorrow and ask about this and update this thread.

    With regards to giving notice Ive sent multiple emails and messaged the secretary who has responded saying she will talk to the landlord. As expected, her and the landlord haven't responded.

    Leave a comment:

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