Long time tenants , no TA

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    #31
    My tenants stated this week that they would like to leave my property and move closer to their work . If they do , fine , but I doubt they will move because they wont find a property for what they are paying now . If they dont leave , I would like to become completely legally legitimate (as opposed to not being sure now) . I would like them to officially move out , then move back in on a new AST as new tenants . Sign a 1 year AST with zero deposit written. That way , if the need arises , I can evict them normally . Hows that sound ?

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      #32
      Like a disaster waiting to happen.

      The only point at which the issues with a s21 matter is when you have to go to court.

      A judge / duty solicitor will make mincemeat of your notice if they find you've tried to create a new tenancy instead of a replacement by faking the tenant moving out and back in again.
      And you won't be in court if the tenants are being co-operative.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #33
        I think I would just press ahead with the s21 and if necessary court case and complete the court paperwork on the basis that there was no deposit. If the Council intended it as some kind of sweetener rather than a security deposit and the tenant doesn't know about it anyway then there must be a good chance that it won't be a problem.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          Like a disaster waiting to happen.

          The only point at which the issues with a s21 matter is when you have to go to court.

          A judge / duty solicitor will make mincemeat of your notice if they find you've tried to create a new tenancy instead of a replacement by faking the tenant moving out and back in again.
          And you won't be in court if the tenants are being co-operative.
          What is the legally accepted definition of the tenants moving out of a property and cessation of previous TA ?
          Would it be written notice from the tenant giving date of leaving ?
          Or would T have to vacate the property for a certain amount of time ?
          How could I legally put an end to the current five year old rolling TA and begin a new one (with the same current tenants)?

          Comment


            #35
            There isn't (as far as I know) any accepted definition for someone moving out and back in.
            It would be (I think) something that would be decided on the facts of the specific issue.

            If your last tenancy agreement says that there is no deposit, I'd rely on that.
            You can always start a new tenancy with a new agreement, which would again have zero in the deposit section.
            But it would never be the first tenancy agreement that the court would need to see on its paperwork, any tenancy would always be a replacement tenancy.

            I'm not really sure what the concern is.
            These sound like long established tenants, and the vast majority of tenancies are ended by the tenant serving notice.

            Put the rent up by increments over the next few years until you're back at market level.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

              I think we need to see exactly what the council wrote.
              I repeat the question as the answer may be significant.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Luke View Post
                How could I legally put an end to the current five year old rolling TA and begin a new one (with the same current tenants)?
                Why would you want to?

                You already have a perfectly good tenancy agreement with the tenants.
                Nothing you do will change the situation, as far as I can see.

                Comment


                  #38
                  My tenants moved out of their own accord and the deposit wasnt mentioned by anyone .
                  What would have happened if the T stopped paying rent and I was unable to evict them due to myself not putting the deposit in a government deposit scheme ?
                  Could the T just stay in the property forever without paying rent and me not being able to do anything about it ?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    The issues with a deposit don't affect notices under section 8 (Housing Act 1988) in the same way, so you could serve notice under that section.
                    Owing two months rent is a mandatory ground for repossession, for example.

                    People tend to use s21 because it's difficult to defend against, but section 8 is an option.
                    But the tenant can defend a section 8 on various grounds that aren't available for s21.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment

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