Long time tenants , no TA

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    Long time tenants , no TA

    Q1 – Where is the rented property located (England / Wales / Scotland / N Ireland)?
    Q2 – What type of Tenancy Agreement (TA) is this e.g. sole tenant / multiple tenant / room only?
    Q3 – What date did current TA start dd/mm/yy?
    Q4 – How long was initial fixed term (6/12/24 months / other)?
    Q5 – Does the TA state that rent is due weekly? / 4-weekly? / per calendar month (if so, on what same date each month)?
    Q6 – Did the TA require a tenant damage deposit to be paid? If so, on what date was this paid (dd/mm/yy)?
    Q7 – If your query relates to a notice for repossession from the landlord (a Section 8 or Section 21 notice) or a tenants's notice to quit to the landlord, please provide the exact date the notice was sent/received (dd/mm/yy).
    Q8 – Does the landlord live in the same property as the tenant?


    1. England
    2. Sole tenant
    3 .2010
    4 .12 months
    5 .2 weeks
    6 . yes and no
    8 No .

    I have a 3 bedroomed apartment that I began renting out to tenants nine years ago .
    The local council put me in touch with the tenants and myself and the tenants singed a one year TA .
    ​​​​​​​The council paid the 1 month deposit and they called that money an incentive to accept tenants from the Council .
    The Council stated that if we renew the TA for a second year , the 1 months deposit would be mine to keep , they wouldnt want it back .
    I didnt put the money into a deposit scheme .
    ​​​​​​​We signed a new TA for the 2 nd year and I kept the money as agreed .
    They paid rent on time and there were no problems .
    About four years ago they said they wanted to leave and so we didnt sign a new TA , they stayed without a TA paying rent as normal .
    They have stayed like that to the present , no TA but paying rent .
    I didnt increase the rent all the time they ve been there and I noticed they are paying 50 % below market rate .
    I want to increase the rent by 30 % .
    ​​​​​​​At the moment , should the need arise , I may have difficulty evicting them .
    How should I proceed to make any future evictions more legitimate .
    Should I get them to sign a new one year TA and then evict them after that ?
    What documents do I need to get in order to make any future evictions successful ?
    Shall get them to sign a new TA and put the deposit as zero or use my own money for the deposit scheme ?

    #2
    If you wanted to evict the tenants, you would have to return the deposit to them first.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
      If you wanted to evict the tenants, you would have to return the deposit to them first.
      The tenants didnt pay the deposit , the Council paid the deposit and they told me that I can keep that deposit after 1 year

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Luke View Post
        The tenants didnt pay the deposit , the Council paid the deposit and they told me that I can keep that deposit after 1 year
        Doesn't matter.
        You received a deposit and didn't protect it, and, until you have returned the deposit to the tenant, you can't serve a valid section 21 notice.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          Doesn't matter.
          You received a deposit and didn't protect it, and, until you have returned the deposit to the tenant, you can't serve a valid section 21 notice.
          The deposit wasnt the tenants money and I cannot return something to a person that wasnt theres in the first place .
          It was the Councils money and they dont want it back .
          The money became mine in 2011

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Luke View Post
            The deposit wasnt the tenants money and I cannot return something to a person that wasnt theres in the first place .
            It was the Councils money and they dont want it back .
            The money became mine in 2011
            You are wrong.

            However, let's, for a moment, assume that you are right.
            In that case, you will never be able to serve a valid section 21 notice to these tenants, because section 215(1a) of the 2004 Housing Act says that you can't.

            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Your answer to Q 3 does not tie up with your subsequent statements.
              What is the correct answer?

              Comment


                #8
                Your argument in court if it get there, is that no deposit was paid for the current tenancy. The deposit that was paid for the tenancy 2010-2011 wasn't protected, but that's neither here or there now. When that tenancy ended, per the condition that the deposit was paid, it was not carried over to the subsequent tenancies.
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by KTC View Post
                  Your argument in court if it get there, is that no deposit was paid for the current tenancy. The deposit that was paid for the tenancy 2010-2011 wasn't protected, but that's neither here or there now. When that tenancy ended, per the condition that the deposit was paid, it was not carried over to the subsequent tenancies.
                  That would be a good argument, but it would hinge on what the subsequent tenancy agreements said about the deposit.

                  If it were me, and it became appropriate to repossess, I'd "return" the deposit, on the basis it needs to be a non-issue.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Luke View Post
                    [..............
                    ​​​​​​​We signed a new TA for the 2 nd year and I kept the money as agreed .
                    They paid rent on time and there were no problems .
                    [B]About four years ago they said they wanted to leave and so we didnt sign a new TA , they stayed without a TA paying rent as normal ........
                    The last signed tenancy has been continuing as the tenancy agreement, but as periodic.
                    Long time tenants , no TA...
                    Untrue, that last signed tenancy is the TA. Period is two-weeks.

                    I too would return deposit to avoid arguments with Judge over invalidity of s21.
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                      If it were me, and it became appropriate to repossess, I'd "return" the deposit, on the basis it needs to be a non-issue.
                      The problem with that approach is that you'll be effectively admitting liability for one or more penalties for non-protection as well.

                      About four years ago they said they wanted to leave and so we didnt sign a new TA , they stayed without a TA paying rent as normal .
                      That implies to me yearly fixed term until 4 years ago then SPT.
                      I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                      I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by KTC View Post
                        The problem with that approach is that you'll be effectively admitting liability for one or more penalties for non-protection as well.
                        I don't think that risk is any different either way.

                        And it would be a tough claim to make or to get anyone operating on a no-win-no-fee basis interested in.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Luke View Post
                          The Council stated that if we renew the TA for a second year , the 1 months deposit would be mine to keep , they wouldnt want it back .]
                          Do you have that in writing?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            I don't think that risk is any different either way.
                            I think you're talking about the risk of getting sued for it? I meant if the OP are sued for it, if they've returned a deposit, they can't then argue that there were no deposit for the 2 or 3 tenancies that are still within limitation.
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If the latest agreement says "no deposit", then I would not do anything about the deposit.
                              It is likely that the T has no recollection of the circumstances of the deposit, nor a copy of the original agreement.

                              Comment

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