Landlord want to keep deposit to repaint after 5 years

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    Landlord want to keep deposit to repaint after 5 years

    Advice wanted please.
    Left property after 5 years, NO inventory or check out was done to my knowledge. He now wants to keep whole deposit of £2000 to pay for a repaint as my kids had coloured on the walls. Is he entitled to keep it all? or as he would anyway expect to repaint a property after 5 years - return my deposit - or a percentage of it?

    #2
    After 5 years, I would expect the walls to need repainting at LL expense.

    However, colouring on the walls is damage that is likely to need additional effort/materials to correct (so it does not "come through" the new paint), and it seems reasonable to charge you for that.

    How much depends on what they coloured with and any other damage.
    Wax crayons would need complete removal of the wax because paint will not adhere. I'm not sure how this could be achieved.
    Pencil crayons should be fairly easy to remove by sanding, BUT may have damaged the surface leaving indentations.
    Ball point pens again may be removable by sanding, but may have left indentations/
    It may be necessary to use a stain-blocking paint before applying the emulsion. The whole of an affected wall would need to be done in the stain-blocking paint to avoid parts of the wall being different colours.

    There is then the question of how many walls have been coloured and the size of the walls..

    I would suggest that 1 hour labour at £20 and 1 tin stain blocking paint at £15 per wall would be reasonable, so £42 including VAT.
    Anything over £50 per wall I would think excessive.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm not sure about the reasonableness of this 5 year W&T write-down notion. Most walls in my properties are perfectly fine after 10 years, or need just selective touch ups, or even just decent cleaning, not complete repainting jobs of every room (often just one coat of the same color is sufficient for high-wear areas).

      It also depends on the quality of the paint and the color - white paint might yellow slightly. Colored paints might change color slightly but might perfectly fine 20 years later (fashion issues excluded)

      @leasholder64 suggested in another thread that £15,000 might be reasonable to paint a small single room area if a freeholder was arranging it (after the various parties take their kickback).

      Comment


        #4
        No I didn't. I suggested that the specification for that job might include a lot more than repainting (even the poster admitted it contained, more, albeit not a lot more). Also that area was in a protected escape route, not that that would account for the cost if only painting were required.

        In that case, it just doesn't make sense that someone would overcharge to a level that would hurt leaseholders enough that they would be likely to challenge it. Generally people who run scams do one of:

        - scam for amounts small enough that people don't think it worth challenging;

        - use untraceable payment channels, and attempt to scam people who won't compare notes;

        - plan to do a runner with the money.

        I suggested the poster on that thread actually look at eh specification and at the itemised quotes, to see what was actually being done, and possibly even check the costings against the books of standard costings..

        Comment


          #5
          If I get a quote for say £500 and LL claims £1500 with a quote - who would the court side with?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
            I'm not sure about the reasonableness of this 5 year W&T write-down notion. Most walls in my properties are perfectly fine after 10 years, or need just selective touch ups, or even just decent cleaning, not complete repainting jobs of every room (often just one coat of the same color is sufficient for high-wear areas).
            I would not repaint whilst tenant remains; it is their wear and tear. I would repaint between tenants after that time.

            I have tried "touch up" and it looks awful (fresh paint looks different to 2-year old paint from he same tin. and is still obvious 2 years later).

            I have yet to find any paint that covers effectively in one coat, even over the same colour.

            Perhaps my standards are higher than yours, but I work on the basis of "give T a nice place and they are likely to look after it; give them a tatty place and they will not give a toss (to quote Geoffrey Boycott)".

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MdeB View Post
              Wax crayons would need complete removal of the wax because paint will not adhere. I'm not sure how this could be achieved.
              Having been through this.... kids! WD40 works very well, spray on then wipe off. Lifts 90% of the marks.

              Mayo (Full fat)
              Rub it on (liberally), leave for 20 mins or so and the wax crayon falls off the wall.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for your replies. I have already vacated the property, and didn't wipe the walls as they needed painting anyway. The question is how much he can deduct from my deposit, and if he comes up with a crazy quote?

                Comment


                  #9
                  The claim is for compensation for a loss, so the quote is just to support the amount of loss.
                  If the quote is unreasonable, query it.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MdeB View Post

                    I would not repaint whilst tenant remains; it is their wear and tear. I would repaint between tenants after that time.

                    I have tried "touch up" and it looks awful (fresh paint looks different to 2-year old paint from he same tin. and is still obvious 2 years later).

                    I have yet to find any paint that covers effectively in one coat, even over the same colour.

                    Perhaps my standards are higher than yours, but I work on the basis of "give T a nice place and they are likely to look after it; give them a tatty place and they will not give a toss (to quote Geoffrey Boycott)".
                    I am trying hard to think how this works. So you are saying that your tenants are paying around 1.5 months of their rent per year on interior painting and carpeting alone (presuming you replace carpets at a similar interval).

                    How many layers of paint do you have on lining paper (at your rate you will have 2 layers of paint every 5 years) before you strip down the walls and re-plaster completely.

                    Perhaps you could explain exactly what happens to a lounge wall that is not touched significantly, hit, or drawn on, painted (say) a slight off-white blue that makes it necessary to paint at all? What makes a wall require painting other than a) a colour change that is not uniform b) a color change to yellow from pure white or c) scuffs and marks that cannot b cleaned d) the requirement for a colour change.

                    To my eye, painting most rooms in most properties (painted properly with decent paint in the first place) would have absolutely no discernible effect. In other words I think you would be incredibly hard pressed to tell me whether the walls had been painted 1 year ago or 10 years ago. I cannot imagine how you would tell? Perhaps it is more a case of decent tenants than of decent standards for maintenance.

                    I think the real problem is with deposit adjudicators who set these sorts of blanket rules (which might make sense in a student rental, but might make absolutely zero sense in many other situations).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MdeB View Post

                      I would not repaint whilst tenant remains; it is their wear and tear. I would repaint between tenants after that time.

                      I have tried "touch up" and it looks awful (fresh paint looks different to 2-year old paint from he same tin. and is still obvious 2 years later).

                      I have yet to find any paint that covers effectively in one coat, even over the same colour.

                      Perhaps my standards are higher than yours, but I work on the basis of "give T a nice place and they are likely to look after it; give them a tatty place and they will not give a toss (to quote Geoffrey Boycott)".
                      Ive touched up paint from the same tin 10yrs after it was painted and after it drys you cannot see any difference, as long as you to it with a sponge to avoid any brush marks or edges of a roller.

                      I use magnolia and a single coat of magnolia over magnolia as long as the wall has not been marked to much covers perfectly... I would suggest you try using trade paint as it has more colour pigment. My choice is Leyland Trade, I buy it in 10L tubs and its about £15.

                      I would expect to repaint a property roughly every 10yrs. £2000 although a lot is probably about right for a half decent painter and decorator, trades cost money these days...

                      Given the above I think a fairer assessment would be to allow half of the cost as "wear and tear", bringing your total to £1000, but then including an additional £200 to cover the extra cost of the damage by your kids. This is presuming the total bill is actually £2000 not higher.

                      The landlord will have also potentially lost extra rent in the time that it takes to repaint but I think. I would go back to the landlord explaining the above and offer £1200.

                      I think the OP was hoping we would say that was totally unreasonable and unlawful and you dont need to pay anything however kids drawing on walls cannot be classed as normal wear and tear... There is an argument that you should pay the full amount, if it was a window broken, the fact the window might be 5 or even 10yrs old I would still claim the full cost of replacing the glass, however in this case by doing so would put the landlord in a better position by not having to repaint the walls for another 10yrs so a deduction I believe to cover wear and tear is reasonable.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Username51 View Post
                        Thanks for your replies. I have already vacated the property, and didn't wipe the walls as they needed painting anyway. The question is how much he can deduct from my deposit, and if he comes up with a crazy quote?
                        Have you ever got quotes for painting and decorating? Being in the trades it annoys me that people think that because they get paid £10-£15 an hour working in an office then a trade like painting and decorating should get paid less. What people fail to think about is trades have other costs that get paid by your employer:

                        To become and electrician I am paying out over £6000 in training
                        Tools which need replacing
                        Van
                        Membership to a required body (if appropriate)
                        Insurance
                        fuel
                        Holiday is unpaid
                        Pension contributions
                        Time to quote for jobs
                        Time to work out what supplies are needed and go get them
                        Time to do paperwork

                        Im sure there are others but as a trade like painting and decorating I would expect to pay £150 - £200. Walls also need preparing before you can paint, this takes time so I don't think £2000 is as outlandish as you consider.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                          So you are saying that your tenants are paying around 1.5 months of their rent per year on interior painting and carpeting alone (presuming you replace carpets at a similar interval).
                          I'm not saying that at all; how do you arrive at that figure?

                          Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                          How many layers of paint do you have on lining paper (at your rate you will have 2 layers of paint every 5 years) before you strip down the walls and re-plaster completely.
                          None; I paint onto the plaster.

                          Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                          Perhaps you could explain exactly what happens to a lounge wall that is not touched significantly, hit, or drawn on, painted (say) a slight off-white blue that makes it necessary to paint at all? What makes a wall require painting other than a) a colour change that is not uniform b) a color change to yellow from pure white or c) scuffs and marks that cannot b cleaned d) the requirement for a colour change.
                          What makes something need painting is "would I want to live with the wall/wood work in that condition given that it was put in that condition by someone else?"
                          If any wall needs painting in a room, then I paint all walls; otherwise it looks weird.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                            I'm not saying that at all; how do you arrive at that figure?
                            Well I was not sure whether the rates I pay decorators are typical but a bit of googling indicated that they are - outside of London. About £350 per room is about average. So a 3 bedroom house might be about £2500 (yes you might be doing it yourself, but if you are counting that at zero cost you are not valuing your own labour properly). Re-carpeting my full properties with decent carpets works out at £3000 to £4000 a shot. Of course I use carpeting that costs around £20/m^2 rather than any old rubbish which would need frequent replacing.

                            £6000 every 5 years works out at around £100/month.

                            I apply the same criteria as you towards painting interval. Since I cannot distinguish (mostly) between a wall painted 2 years ago and one painted 10 years ago (I asked you what you thought would deteriorate in the wall but you didn't reveal that), and I think you (and most folk with normal vision) would be pretty hard pressed to as well - I feel quite happy to paint when the finish actually looks in some way problematical.



                            Comment


                              #15
                              The TDS guidelines state Redecoration is 3 - 5 years!!!

                              Comment

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