Increasing rent under an Assured Periodic Tenancy

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    #16
    Originally posted by MR M View Post

    I don't understand why though, for the reasons stated in my Post #12 above?
    Sorry.

    If you want to waist time and try for 650 go ahead, but don't be surprised when your knocked back by the Rent Assessment Committee.

    This is something you should have looked into before buying the property.

    Good evening....
    Thunderbirds are go

    Comment


      #17
      I am simply asking questions as I am not familiar with this type of tenancy in the hope that other posters who are familiar with it can advise. I thought that was what this forum was for. You might well be correct that I am (ultimately) wasting my time, but if there is a specific reason or reasons why I cannot propose £650 per month then I would appreciate some background as to why this is. To just say I am wasting my time in proposing it, doesn't really help me understand why.

      Comment


        #18
        You can propose what ever you like. RAC will then set a rent based on their formula, which is binding on you for min 2 yrs.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by MR M View Post
          I am simply asking questions as I am not familiar with this type of tenancy in the hope that other posters who are familiar with it can advise.
          Yes but to get the right advice you need to provide details when asked, details can change the advice.

          eg. You have been asked more than once when the tenant first moved in, because that could be important - You haven't replied.
          If you don't know then try asking the tenant themselves, they should remember when they moved there.

          Originally posted by MR M View Post
          I understand that the Tenant has resided in the property long-term and that her tenancy is an Assured Periodic Tenancy.
          How do you 'understand' that?
          Do you have any kind of proof what type of tenancy this actually is?


          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by MR M View Post

            I don't understand why though, for the reasons stated in my Post #12 above?
            I think the inference is being made on the basis of the last increase only being £8 a week.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by nukecad View Post
              Yes but to get the right advice you need to provide details when asked, details can change the advice.

              eg. You have been asked more than once when the tenant first moved in, because that could be important - You haven't replied.
              I replied to that in Post #5 which read "I don't know the answer to that sorry".


              Originally posted by nukecad View Post

              If you don't know then try asking the tenant themselves, they should remember when they moved there.
              Again, by reference to Post #5, I wrote "To clarify, I have bought the house at auction but I haven't got the keys yet". Following my receipt of the keys, I will be arranging a meeting with the Tenant and I will ask them that question then.


              Originally posted by nukecad View Post
              How do you 'understand' that?
              Again, by reference to Post #5, I wrote "I only found out that the Tenant had resided there for 'many years' by talking to one of the neighbours in the street".

              Originally posted by nukecad View Post
              Do you have any kind of proof what type of tenancy this actually is?
              I do not have any proof of the type of tenancy. I did ask the Auctioneer pre-auction if any Tenancy Agreement existed and they said that it didn't. It was noted in the Auctioneers details as being let under an Assured Periodic Tenancy.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by MR M View Post
                I replied to that in Post #5 which read "I don't know the answer to that sorry".
                When you do, please let us know, and we'll try and help you then.

                If the rent is currently £485 per month in a street where £650 is the norm, I suspect that the answer is that you can't increase the rent by anywhere near the amount you would like. An increase of £30 - £40 per month is more likely.
                But that's just a guess until you can confirm the tenancy type.

                What people are highlighting is that the status of the tenancy makes it quite possible that your view that you have purchased the property below market value may be misplaced.

                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #23
                  I think people often misuse the term market value to mean the value of properties built to similar specifications, in the same area, rather than meaning the open market value of their specific property.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    When you do, please let us know, and we'll try and help you then.
                    Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    If the rent is currently £485 per month in a street where £650 is the norm, I suspect that the answer is that you can't increase the rent by anywhere near the amount you would like. An increase of £30 - £40 per month is more likely.
                    But that's just a guess until you can confirm the tenancy type.
                    The Tenancy type is an Assured Periodic Tenancy.

                    Don't get me wrong, it would obviously be great if I could increase the rent to £650 per month but if that wasn't possible (and based on the posts read so far, it looks very unlikely that it would be) then any increase in the current monthly rent of £485 would be a bonus.

                    Is there some set calculation that the Rent Assessment Committee use to calculate the maximum increase in rent proposed against the current rent?

                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    What people are highlighting is that the status of the tenancy makes it quite possible that your view that you have purchased the property below market value may be misplaced.
                    Ok but I have now purchased the property so I am where I am with it. I am happy with the purchase price paid even considering the various tenancy restrictions.

                    I will try to establish what date the Tenant occupied the property and will provide an update then.

                    If I do manage to speak to the Tenant, is there anything else that I should be asking them to confirm regarding their tenancy?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by MR M View Post
                      The Tenancy type is an Assured Periodic Tenancy.
                      One problem with the discussion is that there's no such thing as an Assured Periodic Tenancy.
                      It could be a periodic assured tenancy or a periodic assured shorthold tenancy.

                      The concern is that it probably isn't either of those things.
                      For a periodic tenancy of either of those things the rent assessment committee would compare the rent demanded by a landlord to the market rent.
                      So either you are mistaken about the market rent being £650 pcm or the tenancy type is more regulated, where the rent assessment committee considers the amount of the increase as one of the factors and doesn't give much regard to the market rent.

                      If the rent has been assessed since 2003, it should show up here - https://www.gov.uk/check-register-rents

                      If I do manage to speak to the Tenant, is there anything else that I should be asking them to confirm regarding their tenancy?
                      When did they move in (the key date is before or after 15 January 1989)
                      Do they have a copy of the tenancy agreement?
                      Have they signed any agreements subsequently?



                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I'm guessing it is a Rent Act T, so look up the address on the Fair Rent Register online for Registration etc.

                        Who buys a Property with a sitting T, without finding out when the T first moved in, unless 'as cheap as chips'?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          One problem with the discussion is that there's no such thing as an Assured Periodic Tenancy.
                          It could be a periodic assured tenancy or a periodic assured shorthold tenancy.

                          The concern is that it probably isn't either of those things.
                          For a periodic tenancy of either of those things the rent assessment committee would compare the rent demanded by a landlord to the market rent.
                          So either you are mistaken about the market rent being £650 pcm or the tenancy type is more regulated, where the rent assessment committee considers the amount of the increase as one of the factors and doesn't give much regard to the market rent.

                          If the rent has been assessed since 2003, it should show up here - https://www.gov.uk/check-register-rents
                          The Auctioneers originally noted the tenancy as being Regulated. They subsequently issued an update prior to the auction advising that the Tenancy was not regulated but was an Assured Periodic Tenancy.

                          The rent achievable for similar properties in the street is definitely £650 pcm,

                          Via the link that you have kindly provided, the property does appear on the register.

                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          When did they move in (the key date is before or after 15 January 1989)
                          It is noted on the register that the Tenancy commenced in March 1966.

                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          Do they have a copy of the tenancy agreement?
                          I will ask the Tenant but I did previously ask the Auctioneers if any Tenancy Agreement existed and they said that there wasn't one in existence.

                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          Have they signed any agreements subsequently?
                          I will ask the Tenant.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            If the property is rent controlled, the information given by the auction sounds suspect.

                            In the light of that, you should also try and establish if the tenant is the original tenant or inherited it.
                            And if they are the original tenant is there anyone else living there who could inherit (spouse, civil partner, cohabitee or another family member living there)?

                            The answer to your original question then is that you almost certainly can't increase the rent as you would for an AST, by demanding a new rent, which might be objected to and referred to a tribunal.

                            You would have to apply to a rent officer for a rent increase, who will probably allow a small increase (in line with a standard formula, which limits the amount that can be increased).
                            You can do that every two years.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              If the property is rent controlled, the information given by the auction sounds suspect.
                              So if the property is listed on the Fair Rent Register, does that automatically mean that it is a) still let under a Regulated Tenancy and b) is 'rent controlled'?

                              If the answer is that it is still definitely let under a Regulated Tenancy then I may ask my Solicitor to take this up with the Auctioneer as they specifically stated that it was not Regulated but let under an Assured Periodic Tenancy.

                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              In the light of that, you should also try and establish if the tenant is the original tenant or inherited it.
                              And if they are the original tenant is there anyone else living there who could inherit (spouse, civil partner, cohabitee or another family member living there)?
                              From memory and again, only through talking to the neighbours in the street, I understand that the Tenant lives in the property alone but I will try to establish firm answers to these questions when I meet the Tenant.

                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              The answer to your original question then is that you almost certainly can't increase the rent as you would for an AST, by demanding a new rent, which might be objected to and referred to a tribunal.

                              You would have to apply to a rent officer for a rent increase, who will probably allow a small increase (in line with a standard formula, which limits the amount that can be increased).
                              You can do that every two years.
                              So are you saying that the initial proposal to increase the rent should not be issued to the Tenant, it should be issued to a Rent Officer without consulting the Tenant? How should the proposal be made, is there a standard form which needs to be completed?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by MR M View Post
                                So if the property is listed on the Fair Rent Register, does that automatically mean that it is a) still let under a Regulated Tenancy and b) is 'rent controlled'?

                                If the answer is that it is still definitely let under a Regulated Tenancy then I may ask my Solicitor to take this up with the Auctioneer as they specifically stated that it was not Regulated but let under an Assured Periodic Tenancy.
                                I'm not knowledgable enough to be 100% certain, but as far as I know, if a tenancy was eligible for rent control it must be regulated.

                                If the tenancy was regulated, it can't become unregulated regardless unless the tenant dies or the tenancy ends.
                                And the tenancy can be inherited, if the tenant dies, and remains regulated until it's inherited a second time or the inherited tenancy ends.

                                So it shouldn't be possible for it to be an Assured Tenancy, unless it's been inherited twice already.
                                So unless the tenant in 2016 had inherited the tenancy and had died in the interim, it seems unlikely.
                                So are you saying that the initial proposal to increase the rent should not be issued to the Tenant, it should be issued to a Rent Officer without consulting the Tenant? How should the proposal be made, is there a standard form which needs to be completed?
                                I don't know what the specific process is, sorry.
                                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                                Comment

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