Invalid Section 8 Notice? What to do?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    It sounds like you haven't used a "room only" AST and that you may have given this and the other tenants in the property each exclusive possession of the whole property, which could lead to further problems at a later date.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
      It sounds like you haven't used a "room only" AST and that you may have given this and the other tenants in the property each exclusive possession of the whole property, which could lead to further problems at a later date.
      Thanks DPT57.

      I'm planning on selling the property. I let the four tenants know of my intentions to sell and the other three all left very amicably. So it's just the one tenant who is in arrears that remains in the house.

      Comment


        #18
        Was the tenant the only occupant when the notice was served?
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          Was the tenant the only occupant when the notice was served?
          There was one other tenant remaining in the property when the notice was served, who moved out 12 days later.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by AndyStart View Post
            There was one other tenant remaining in the property when the notice was served, who moved out 12 days later.
            Shame, if he'd been the only person in the property, the defence might have failed simply on that basis.



            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
              Shame, if he'd been the only person in the property, the defence might have failed simply on that basis.


              But it might be worth trying the argument n court that T is the only person in possession of the property now?

              Comment


                #22
                If the other tenant who was there had given notice, that would be helpful.

                But I think it's going to come down to whether the address was sufficient.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Thanks both, all good thoughts.

                  I'll try and argue that the Section 8 notice mirrors the AST in it's wording, and whilst the tenant occupies a room, they have full use of the house and there is no one else in the property and that it is very clear to all what I am seeking possession of.

                  I think, if the idea behind it all is that courts/judges look for reasons or technicalities not to make people homeless, I will argue that the tenant in this case has no dependents, is in full-time work and receiving Universal Credit and can easily press the reset button on their situation and secure a similar room in another property.

                  ...and if the Section 8 notice is deemed invalid, as KT0 suggested, I'll request that, as per Section 8(1)(b) of Housing Act 1988, that the judge dispense of the requirement of such a notice. The grounds being, as you point out jpkeats, that delaying everything by going through the process of issuing a further notice will only continue the increasing debt in rent arrears being accrued, which is no good for any party involved.

                  Does that sound reasonable?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I'd write down the arguments and have them with you (in bullet form).

                    The rooms don't (presumably) have a letterbox of their own.

                    So the argument to stick to is that the address of anything sent to the tenant would always use the property address (and the tenant's name).

                    Unless the rooms have numbers or names, and some way of receiving post, there's no way of addressing a specific room in any meaningful way.

                    Challenge the tenant to show that he has used anything other than the property address for any purpose (do their bills or the court papers have a reference to a specific room in the property?)

                    The other tenants seem to have managed to work out who the notices were for, addressed to them by name at the property and have, accordingly, left.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #25
                      No, the rooms are not numbered and the house just has one front door with letter box, so the likelihood of the tenant ever having given an address with anything other than just the house address is pretty much zero.

                      I did wonder whether the argument might be made by court or defence, that if in the event bailiffs are required to remove the tenant and their possessions, they would only know what to remove if they knew the specific room. But I have no idea what bailiffs are supplied with from the court; i.e. information with the exact wording from the Section 8 notice, a copy of the Section 8 notice itself, or some other method.

                      That I would have to address as and when it was brought up. Other than that it's in the hands of the judge to decide what they deem reasonable I guess.

                      Thanks again for the advice jpkeates.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Andy, you make a valid observation. Bailiffs work on the Repo Order address eg 2 Acacia Ave and may 'evict' all occupants at that address.
                        Mat be be best to re-serve valid s8 (defining room) and accept any delay?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Bailiffs here don't remove tenant belongings, only the tenant.

                          Hence my point about leaving the s8 to refer to the whole house lest the guy hides out in a different room.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Thanks mariner, thanks JK0.

                            The tenant has various items around the house that belong to them, so either way, describing the room position on the Section 8 Notice would not have guaranteed only the tenants item's would be removed properly.

                            From the advice given, what I've read and what the court have said about costs of delaying proceedings, I'm going to push ahead and plead my case with some crazy notion that logic and reason might prevail.

                            One last question;

                            I need to submit my case and evidence to the court in the next few days. Does anyone know what format this should take, in terms of presentation? I've searched around and can't find any advice from people who have done this themselves a few times. Maybe there's a thread on the forum I'm missing? Or should I post a separate thread?

                            On a final note, once this is done, I'll write an account of how things went. There must be thousands of landlords who have been through this process, and yet there seems to be very few detailed accounts of how to prepare for, submit and present a possession claim case when representing yourself.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I think you just have to have a common sense approach:

                              Number all your bits of evidence, write an index, and a statement describing how they are relevant. Send copies to court, and defendant.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I would suggest that anything you prepare explicitly (rather than existing documents) be in a 12-point sans serif font with double line-spacing.

                                This makes it easier to read.

                                Comment

                                Latest Activity

                                Collapse

                                • Serving a Section 21 on inherited tenants
                                  VanDriver
                                  Hi all

                                  I am interested in buying a freehold property at auction, arranged as two purpose built maisonettes. Both properties are tenanted, the tenants have been in occupation since 2005. Looking at the legal pack online the current landlord has done everything correctly. There is a signed...
                                  18-10-2019, 07:39 AM
                                • Reply to Serving a Section 21 on inherited tenants
                                  theartfullodger
                                  [QUOTE=VanDriver;n1083398]
                                  I understand the AST starts 2005. But there may have been an earlier tenancy, and if early enough they the 2005 AST won't actually be an AST. ASK THE TENANT - vendor, estate agent, solicitor won't know/won't tell truth.

                                  Key dates are 15 January 1989 -...
                                  18-10-2019, 14:46 PM
                                • Tenants and Sky/Virgin etc
                                  PotatoHead
                                  I've had several different tenants rent my house in the past few years, each tends to stay about a year (fairly transient area).

                                  Each one has asked to change broadband/tv/phone provider, one did it without asking. The result is Sky/Virgin/BT drilling new holes each year into my walls to...
                                  15-10-2019, 21:11 PM
                                • Reply to Tenants and Sky/Virgin etc
                                  John Duff
                                  There have always been clauses to that effect in my TAs. However, having spelt that out to tenants at signing, many will ignore. Expect to be awarded peanuts from deposit.

                                  Recently had another dish installed adjacent to the existing at a property I own. Tenant has (without permission) dish...
                                  18-10-2019, 14:44 PM
                                • Repossession query
                                  Wellybike
                                  Hi, new LL to this forum. I rented a property to 2 tenants on an Assured Shorthold tenancy on 24 March 2018. I didn't supply an EPC or checklist. It was rented in London and there was no initial fixed term. Rent due 24th of each month and a deposit paid. OK, now one tenant wants to have the whole flat....
                                  18-10-2019, 14:17 PM
                                • Reply to Repossession query
                                  jpkeates
                                  If they're joint tenants, you can only end the tenancy for both of them (notice and court will be required if one of them is reluctant to go).
                                  You can supply the EPC and How to Rent guide before serving notice (but make sure the How to Rent guide is the right version).

                                  The tenant...
                                  18-10-2019, 14:42 PM
                                • Reply to Tenants and Sky/Virgin etc
                                  Raiden328i
                                  Funny enough we only got fibre a year ago on our road. I was told for years we wouldn't get it because it would cause too much chaos but as there are a lot of new builds in the area the street eventually got it along with other stuff but its been a nightmare shutting down the roads every 5 mins. I...
                                  18-10-2019, 14:35 PM
                                • tenant with 3 kids
                                  abc777uu
                                  Hi,
                                  My current tenant has 2 kids and living in my 2 bed flat.
                                  the kids are a 5 years old girl and a 6 months old baby boy.
                                  recently, I came to know that the tenant’s wife is pregnant.
                                  by law, can they stay in 2 bed flat with 3 kids?

                                  Please advise.
                                  Thanks...
                                  16-10-2019, 14:10 PM
                                • Reply to tenant with 3 kids
                                  John Duff
                                  Sorry haven't read the full thread re. overcrowding but here's my story:

                                  Couple rented my 2 bed with 2 children working part LHA. They really wanted a council house from day 1. Council advised to find accommodation in PRS and they were placed low down on waiting list.

                                  Year...
                                  18-10-2019, 14:33 PM
                                • Reply to tenant with 3 kids
                                  theartfullodger
                                  I am safe as a landlord until the 3rd kid is MORE than 1 year.
                                  - or -
                                  I am safe as a landlord WHILST the 3rd kid is less than 1 year....
                                  18-10-2019, 14:29 PM
                                Working...
                                X