Wasp removal...whose responsibility

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  • onecuriousll
    replied
    We had this problem twice in our leasehold flat. As the nest was in the loft, this was considered the freeholder's liability and the buildings insurance paid. As it's so cheap, you may check as it's probably covered and I don't think it affects your premium and you don't have to pay any axcess. I just dealt with it and the insurance sent me a check to reimburse my costs. The tenants assumed it was my responsbility too, btw.

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  • tatemono
    replied
    ok thanks for clarifying,

    I think I got my understanding from docs I've been reading in the NLA online library. Take, for example, this from their section on ending a tenancy where the landlord is (for some reason) liable for utilities and the tenant who has left has done so with utility payments to the LL outstanding:

    If the landlord wants to be able to offset the final bill against any deposit that he holds, it will need to be made clear in the tenancy agreement that the deposit can be used in this way.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by tatemono View Post
    Not clear what you're saying is incorrect. Are you saying that claiming costs from the deposit for the example I've given is incorrect or that my saying you can't claim unless the clause is in the TA is incorrect?
    The part I'm saying that is not correct is your reference to the tenant fees ban.
    Originally posted by tatemono View Post
    Because of the tenant fees ban, unless you have a clause that states that you can deduct from the deposit for expenses you incur because of T negligence, you cannot claim them.
    "[E]xpenses that you incur because of tenant negligence" are not fees and are not affected by the tenant's fees act.
    So there's no need to have anything in the tenancy agreement (although it might help the tenant to understand their position).

    "[E]xpenses that you incur because of tenant negligence" are losses beyond the scope of a tenancy agreement and are the basis of most deposit deduction claims.
    If they were not allowed under the Tenants Fees Act, no one could claim for any damage beyond fair wear and tear.


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  • alice123
    replied
    Has same problem it was bees i think or wasps cant remember but got specialist down and shared cost with tenants half half , you simply have to provide butler service it was 50 quid with a guarantee

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  • tatemono
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    Sorry, but this isn't correct...
    Not clear what you're saying is incorrect. Are you saying that claiming costs from the deposit for the example I've given is incorrect or that my saying you can't claim unless the clause is in the TA is incorrect?

    If the latter, I will have got it from somewhere as it's not the kind of thing I'd assume on my own. However, where I got it from may not be traceable. It could have come from NLA documentation, but if you've followed my other thread about charging potential tenants for referencing, I'm not sure I can take their word for anything anymore.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    [QUOTE=leaseholder64;n1076196]Although it probably doesn't change the above, I don't think the deposit is really a prepayment. I would say it was money held in trust. A prepayment could be used without the tenant's permission, but using the deposit requires their permission or that of a court./QUOTE]
    You're right, I had ignored that element of a pre-payment in trying to be clever!

    The trust element is actually a little contentious.
    I share that view, but it isn't supported very widely.

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  • leaseholder64
    replied
    Although it probably doesn't change the above, I don't think the deposit is really a prepayment. I would say it was money held in trust. A prepayment could be used without the tenant's permission, but using the deposit requires their permission or that of a court.

    This is a bit more explicit for agents, as with insured schemes, they now need to use a client money protection scheme.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by tatemono View Post
    Because of the tenant fees ban, unless you have a clause that states that you can deduct from the deposit for expenses you incur because of T negligence, you cannot claim them.

    Say, for example, you arranged for a tradesman to fix something and the T agreed to be there in advance but was not in when they arrived and you were charged for the tradesman's time. You cannot recoup this at all except from the deposit and only if the tenancy agreement stipulates as such.
    Sorry, but this isn't correct (unless you can show me where I've missed this in the legislation).

    The Tenants Fees Act relates to payments demanded by a landlord or agent, not a claim for a loss outside the scope of a contract.
    Otherwise, you couldn't claim the costs from a deposit either, regardless of the agreement wording.
    Deposits are basically just a (pre-)payment mechanism, they're still subject to the tenants fees legislation.

    In your example, you can't charge a fee or surcharge for the visit, but you can claim the cost you incur as a result of the tenant's action.
    The tenant has agreed to something and the landlord incurs a loss due to the tenant's breach of that agreement, the cost (as long as it's mitigated and reasonable) is recoverable.

    The clause quoted would benefit from the removal of the word "reasonable" and "major", which introduce an unhelpful ambiguity.
    And it doesn't do anything but restrict the landlord in claims that they could make without it existing, so it's actually unhelpful overall.

    A clause that any losses incurred in the value of the property beyond fair wear and tear may be deducted from the tenancy deposit might be helpful as clarity, but don't give the landlord any more right to deduct money from the deposit than if it didn't exist.


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  • tatemono
    replied
    and it is actually spelled out as such in the tenancy agreement (although that may be what you are implying here Lawcruncher). Because of the tenant fees ban, unless you have a clause that states that you can deduct from the deposit for expenses you incur because of T negligence, you cannot claim them.

    Say, for example, you arranged for a tradesman to fix something and the T agreed to be there in advance but was not in when they arrived and you were charged for the tradesman's time. You cannot recoup this at all except from the deposit and only if the tenancy agreement stipulates as such.

    A clause such as

    The reasonable costs incurred in compensating the Landlord for, or for rectifying or remedying any major breach by the Tenant of the Tenant’s obligations under the Agreement, including those relating to the cleaning of the Premises and its Fixtures and Fittings, and contents.
    should do it.

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  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by mariner View Post
    Pay for eradication but deduct cost from T deposit at end of T.
    You can only do that if there is an obligation on the tenant.

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  • tatemono
    replied
    certainly does and we're happy to set it. As we've all got different reasons for letting and tenants are a varied lot, not every landlord sets the same precedents ;-)

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  • mariner
    replied
    But sets a precedent,
    Pay for eradication but deduct cost from T deposit at end of T.

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  • tatemono
    replied
    We've had this three times. One on an empty property which the builders found and we dealt with and twice with good tenants in place. We sorted them both for the tenants ourselves. It costs hardly anything.

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  • boletus
    replied
    It is the tenant's responsibility. Wasps don't nest when they moved in 2 month's ago.

    Roll over now and you will be changing their bog roll every time it runs out.

    However....

    For the sake of £35 for pest control, I'd sort it out, and then make it a huge deal of exactly who is responsible for what.

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  • MdeB
    replied
    Originally posted by jpucng62 View Post
    As a wasps nest is not caused by anything the tenant has done
    It is also not caused by anything the LL has done.

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