Section 8 Ground 1 - Complicated Case.

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    Section 8 Ground 1 - Complicated Case.

    Dear Friends, I need some help on my situation. I feel like I am living a nightmare. I have put what I have gone through in a concise summary as I could.

    I am looking for specific advice and my questions is at the end. Please help.

    A letting agent approached us and said that there is a company who would like to take our property under company letting. I gave my house on rent to this company after I received a guarantor letter from the director of the company, a reference from an established referencing company and the directors account statements. The letting agent took 5% upfront for their services. This company paid me rent for three months and then stopped paying. When I went back to the property to find out I met three tenants living in the property.

    My investigations revealed that The referencing letter was fraudulent the statements provided by the director was fraudulent. It was all a sham.

    I was horrified to learn that the three tenants had a tenancy agreement with my estate agent and as per their agreement they will pay rent and all the utilities and council tax will be paid by the landlord.

    The tenants had paid the deposit to this estate agent which they lost. The company or the estate agent have not responded.

    I hired a solicitor and he recommended that I take over the property as my agreement stated that if the agreement fails with the company then all the tenants and the occupiers will fall under me and I become their immediate landlord.

    My lawyer served sections 47 and 48 reaffirming that I am the landlord and asked the tenants to pay me directly.

    Two tenants did not pay and of those one tenant stayed in the property for 3+ months and then agreed to leave for a lump sum. The other tenant couldn’t pay as she had no right to rent and couldn’t work. (home office did not help me saying they cannot issue notice to evict till they are convinced that the person is safe to return to their country)

    I took her to court and she counter claimed using her charity solicitors saying that I owe her 9 times her lost deposit. During the time when I went to court she had not paid rent for 6 months. This is a bogus claim to just delay the whole process. Before going to court I secured her deposit with my own money. The lady came with a case worker and her baby to the court. My witness statement was very long and the judge did not understand the case in 20 mins so he recommended a 90 minute hearing and this case continues. The judge agreed that I don’t have any obligation as I was a head landlord and the deposit was not paid to me but he would like to understand the case before giving a judgement. The tenant is at the moment 10 months in arrears.

    All the three tenants have been difficult. The two who are remaining at the property both got pregnant in my property and delivered their baby. So there are two adults and two babies in the property. One tenant took a lump sum, surrendered the tenancy based on the understanding that I will not pursue for rent arrears and left.

    The third tenant was paying me and she continues to pay, what she pays goes towards council tax and utilities. I paid her back her deposit. She finished her term couple of months back but doesn’t want to leave as the house in big she has a very big bedroom and I pay for utilities and council tax. I issued section 8 ground 1 after her fixed term ended as the solicitor and I were not sure of section 21. She is looking for a council house and the council will not give her till she gets an eviction notice. But she is going to contest I don’t know why as she has said to court that she will represent herself.

    I have spent £18,000+ in solicitors bills in dealing with these three tenants and have lost all my hard earned saving. I was supposed to earn 24,000 on this property as it is a very large well-furnished 4 bedroom house. This has destabilised me and my stable family and both my wife and I are depressed and unable to cope. Both of us try our best to be stable as we have to keep working else we may become bankrupt.

    This issue has caused us so much hardship that we are not able to fully focus on our kids, we have two beautiful kids who make us happy and keep us grounded. I cannot have a decent conversation with the tenants as I find them very rude and unhelpful. If there is an issue at the property I have to take a day off as they would not open the doors for the British gas engineers to resolve the issue. I have contracted BG for any issues at the property, The house is in a very good condition. There are so many issues which I can’t even write on this forum. I find the tenants behave like kids and are not considerate.

    The reason why I am writing here is on my section 8 ground 1 claim - My witness statement says that I have to move back to my property due to the losses I have incurred and not able to afford my current home. We stayed at this property for 8 years before moving to our new property. I am relying on the judge’s discretion as I had not given any notice before I let the property saying I may use ground 1.

    The question I have is for Section 8 ground 1 what all should I show to the judge to prove that I used to stay at the property. I have letters from school, DVLA, account statements, Insurance documents etc. What else could I potentially provide? What additional things should I be mindful off? I have a solicitor but I need a second opinion. My witness statement is detailed and factual but not sure what more could I do.

    I am also worried that the judge may not understand this case in 20 mins and may ask for a longer hearing. Do the judges read the case before hand or do they read it during the hearing? My case is going to be heard very very soon in days.


    Dear all, Please share you experience if any?






        Sounds like a long shot to me.
        But your solicitor presumably knows what they're doing.

        I'd have more confidence in the longer hearing on the claim for rent owing.
        I can't imagine a judge deciding on the issue of whether it's equitable to dispense with the need for notice in 20 minutes.

        Sounds like a real 5hit show.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).


          Dear jpkeates, thanks for coming back.

          Quick update - The court case was today and I luckily received the possession order. The judge was very sensible as he had already read my witness statement before hand and understood the case. The defendant was also looking for a possession order and that helped.



            Blimey - well done.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).


              I should say the judge was very sensible. He was not suppose to hear my case but he got it at the last minute. He told us that he has read my statement which was pretty comprehensive. He focussed on the defendant and explained her the situation.

              my previous case was so clear cut on rent arrears at least I thought but the judge failed to read my witness statement and looked annoyed the lady was in rent arrears for 6 months but gave me another date for a longer hearing.

              hopefully I’ll get that sorted soon. Need a bit of luck.


                Glad to hear that the drugs are sent in this case please let us know how you get on and hoping you get a positive result


                  I doubt you got a repo on s8 g1, as you did not inform T prior to start of Tenancy why you may use that ground. Judge's decision may have been pragmatic, ie giving both sides what they desired and his decision could be overturned by a Higher Court. (failing to consider prevailing legislqtion?)
                  OP/T struck lucky, but the Judge was cr@p, so should Boris consider him for Sollicitor General/


                    Originally posted by mariner View Post
                    I doubt you got a repo on s8 g1, as you did not inform T prior to start of Tenancy why you may use that ground. Judge's decision may have been pragmatic, ie giving both sides what they desired and his decision could be overturned by a Higher Court. (failing to consider prevailing legislqtion?)
                    Ground 1:
                    Not later than the beginning of the tenancy the landlord gave notice in writing to the tenant that possession might be recovered on this ground or the court is of the opinion that it is just and equitable to dispense with the requirement of notice
                    Judge has discretion.


                      Also my Lawyer said that the bar for ground 1 repossession where a notice is not served is not very high as per a judgement in the late 90s so if the judge doesn’t give me repo I could appeal at high court.

                      thankfully it didn’t come to that!


                        Hello, just a quick update.

                        i received possession of my property from the third tenants. The hearing was for 90 mins and the judge took the whole of 90mins to discuss the case. The tenant had counter claimed 9 times the deposit. The judge rejected the counter claim as the money was not paid to me and I was not her landlord at the time she paid the deposit. She had not paid any rent since November last year. I felt that the judge didn’t seem very keen to give me possession. Hopefully my nightmare will end soon.



                          Good to know - thanks for the update!
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).


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