S21 confusion documents not issued prior

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  • blinko
    started a topic S21 confusion documents not issued prior

    S21 confusion documents not issued prior

    Guys I have a question .

    I issued a tenancy in april 2016 the tenancy agreement was signed. I gave keys to the tenancy 1st march 2016 and protected the deposit and gave him relevant paperwork BUT I didnt get any proof I issued the paperwork.

    So 20th april i re did everything and got tenant to sign co forming receipt of all relevant docs eg gas, EPC, right to rent.

    I issued a new AST 8 months ago, and have proof all relevant docs issued .

    I've issued s21 , a question will the fact that I issued the original 1st documents 20 days after they moved in cause problems for me ?

    Thanks

  • MdeB
    replied
    Originally posted by blinko View Post

    You understand what it means !
    If that were the case I would not waste my time asking for clarification.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Yeah good point eventually s.21 will no longer exist and those landlords trapped by this situation will be able to use a strengthened section 8

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholder64
    replied
    I don't get the Italian bit, either.

    I would note that there is proposed legislation to remove section 21, and replace it with strengthened provisions for the use of specific grounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Originally posted by MdeB View Post

    Please could you explain that comment, as currently I am with mariner.
    You understand what it means !

    Leave a comment:


  • MdeB
    replied
    Originally posted by blinko View Post
    Oh please how primitive are you
    Please could you explain that comment, as currently I am with mariner.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Originally posted by mariner View Post
    What's the Italian's got to do with it?
    Annual GSC is a Stat Req for Gas Safety. EPC is to improve min thermal (en ergy) levels. It also allows T to decide which property(product) to rent before committing to the Contract, as per any other Consumer.

    I fear your career as a Judge could be short.
    Oh please how primitive are you

    Leave a comment:


  • DPT57
    replied
    Unlikely that your version of 'common sense' will prevail in any court case in my view.

    By the way, if your tenants took possession on 28 Feb then that's when their tenancy began. If your agreement to let them move-in early was documented anywhere, (eg an email), then they may try to use the confusion over start date of the tenancy to their advantage in any court hearing.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Originally posted by mariner View Post
    What's the Italian's got to do with it?
    Annual GSC is a Stat Req for Gas Safety. EPC is to improve min thermal (en ergy) levels. It also allows T to decide which property(product) to rent before committing to the Contract, as per any other Consumer.

    I fear your career as a Judge could be short.
    Thanks for your help

    Leave a comment:


  • mariner
    replied
    What's the Italian's got to do with it?
    Annual GSC is a Stat Req for Gas Safety. EPC is to improve min thermal (en ergy) levels. It also allows T to decide which property(product) to rent before committing to the Contract, as per any other Consumer.

    I fear your career as a Judge could be short.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Of course but the challenge is not that the safety is is not being observed because for example consider the gas equipment to be faulty in the property blows up house burnt down everybody loses so so for me I would like to think that this is common sense.

    requesting here appears to be and for me certainly is timing of the issuing of these documents best take for example the EPC what is the effect of issuing this late or it being incorrect on even existing yet in the case of S21 one it is totally able to prevent an S21 from ever being issued yet it's totally insignificant on the effect of the Italian their ability to enjoy the property and the landlord's only to provide such a property which is desirable in enough for tenants to enjoy

    Your thoughts ?

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Originally posted by blinko View Post
    I'm hoping the judges see some kind of common sense here that the Mechanics for the S21 are an essential tool for landlords and that the fact that a gas safety certificate although insignificant should not appear to be able to disrupt such a mechanism that has such importance.
    I have to respond to this.

    Whether you are pro-landlord or pro-tenant, the safety of the occupiers are a hell of a lot more important than the ability of a landlord to evict a tenant without grounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • blinko
    replied
    Thanks for your thoughts guy is so yeah this is correct that for sure I am not able to prove that I served the correct documents prior to the tenant moving in and I have served them on three other occasions since as we have renewed the ast everything has been renewed including the positive being we protected just to be safe

    I'm hoping the judges see some kind of common sense here that the Mechanics for the S21 are an essential tool for landlords and that the fact that a gas safety certificate although insignificant should not appear to be able to disrupt such a mechanism that has such importance.

    realistically if I were a judge I would issue the following that all relevant paperwork needs to be reissued before and S21 can be considered valid the idea that a gas safety certificates or EPC came in the 87 can stay in a cup of tea until effectively they die by assuming they do not reach any section 8 notices is unbelievable.

    was there a question I have been reading the grounds and they do appear to be to grounds that offer mandatory repossession those are Saturday landlord wishes to sell and that the landlord wishes to move back into the property do you guys think this could be an alternative option?

    Leave a comment:


  • cymro123
    replied
    If you did not serve the tenants with a copy of the current GSC before they occupied the property it's a grey area and you will be reliant on luck if the notice is challenged. If you did not serve a copy of the GSC on all tenants in the last 12 months OR a copy of the current How to Rent at the start of the current tenancy, or the latest version before service of the S21 your S21 is invalid. The outcome of any legal challenge will be evidence based.

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    You can try s21? If you did give it before the tenancy start, the tenant may not challenge it.

    Any valid s8 ground, in particularly g1?

    A relevant appeal is going through the Court of Appeal at the moment, the judgment may or may not be beneficial to you. Don't know how long that's going to take.

    Leave a comment:

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