Proving viewers saw EPC

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    Proving viewers saw EPC

    What steps are other landlords taking to prove viewers (who become tenants) have seen the EPC before viewing? My friend is showing my property to some people today. In view of this, I gave him two copies of the EPC, and asked him to get them to sign both copies, and return one to me.

    (Of course the F***wit forgot, so those viewers will not be renting the place.)
    To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

    #2
    What risk are you mitigating here? A penalty charge notice for breach of The Energy Performance of Buildings (England and Wales) Regulations 2012, or no s21 for non-compliance of The Assured Shorthold Tenancy Notices and Prescribed Requirements (England) Regulations 2015?

    In the latter case, the requirement is only:
    The relevant person must ensure that a valid energy performance certificate has been given free of charge to the person who ultimately becomes the buyer or tenant.
    You don't need to show that it was seen by viewing, or even given before tenancy. No valid s21 penalty only applies if it still haven't be given by the time of s21.
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

    Comment


      #3
      What risk am I mitigating?

      The risk that the requirement for it becomes another reason for refusing a s21, (similar to gas certificates.)

      That act goes on to say:

      Energy performance certificates on sale and rent

      6.—(1) Subject to regulation 8, this regulation applies where a building is to be sold or rented out.

      (2) The relevant person shall make available free of charge a valid energy performance certificate to any prospective buyer or tenant—

      (a)at the earliest opportunity; and

      (b)in any event no later than whichever is the earlier of—

      (i)in the case of a person who requests information about the building, the time at which the relevant person first makes available any information in writing about the building to the person; or

      (ii)in the case of a person who makes a request to view the building, the time at which the person views the building.
      To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

      Comment


        #4
        Include it in any online adverts for the property.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks JPK. When you say include it, do you mean a link, or just the little rainbow diagram that appears on Rightmove listings? (Frankly I don't think Rightmove are compliant.)
          To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

          Comment


            #6
            Include it with the other pictures (if you can).

            I also include a copy with the deposit PI.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              I include a copy in the itemised pack (contract, PI, inventory etc etc) that both parties sign. I have a copy with their signature on and the 'contents and confirmation of receipt' document that we both signed and dated before move in.

              Looking back we included it on the photos for the advert, and a link to the EPC in the text.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by KTC View Post
                You don't need to show that it was seen by viewing, or even given before tenancy. No valid s21 penalty only applies if it still haven't be given by the time of s21.
                That's an optimistic view.

                A less optimistic reading would be that "the person who ultimately becomes the buyer or tenant" can't be validly given the certificate once they are the buyer or the tenant. Because by then that person can't "become" a tenant, they already are one.

                And that's consistent with the intention of the legislation, to make energy efficiency part of the buying decision making process.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                  That act goes on to say:
                  The Assured Shorthold Tenancy Notices and Prescribed Requirements (England) Regulations 2015 only cares about reg. 6(5), i.e. just the bit I quoted, hence my question whether your concern is limited to s21, or the EPC regs in general.

                  Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                  That's an optimistic view.
                  It's the current accepted view with housing lawyers etc.

                  If you don't want to risk that changing, including a copy with the contract etc. should be sufficient. I've seen tenancy agreement paperwork (which the tenant is required to signed) that explicitly state that a copy of the EPC have been given.
                  I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                  I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Trading Standards can impose civil penalties based on failing to provide on time, even though the section 21 may not be blocked.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                      Trading Standards can impose civil penalties based on failing to provide on time, even though the section 21 may not be blocked.
                      Trading standards won't do that in practice.

                      It costs so much for a local authority (or associated organisation) to commence legal action that they only do so after a huge internal approval process and for serious cases only.
                      It might be an "add on" charge for some more serious offender.

                      It's a serious problem with all aspects of local authority enforcement.
                      Central government cuts mean that the local authorities simply can't afford to enforce the regulations they're meant to.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by KTC View Post
                        It's the current accepted view with housing lawyers etc.
                        Right up until a new Superstrike makes us all look like idiots and renders government efforts to end s21 redundant.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I wouldn't want to be in court trying to get an eviction, with my tenant pointing out the act I quoted to the judge though.
                          To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

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