Should I/ Can I issue a Section 8

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    Should I/ Can I issue a Section 8

    Hi all

    I have a tenant who is in rent arrears, He has lost his job and has no definite job lined up at the moment. The tenancy is in his name only. I have found out that he has moved in girlfriend and her children into the house without letting me know. I have issued form 6a giving him 2 months notice to leave. As he is also in breach of his agreement can I issue a section 8 and request that they leave in 14 days? I appreciate that this is not a nice thing to do but I am trying to minimise the rent arrears. He cannot afford the rent and pay back his current arrears. They also seem to think it is acceptable to stay there and not pay rent! I had said that he can cut his losses and move out and I would not require notice and would use his deposit to cover part of the arrears etc. But this was before I knew he had moved his girlfriend in etc.

    All thoughts gratefully received

    Thanks

    #2
    Yeah, by all means issue it. Don't proceed on it in court IIWY, as no doubt will be a struggle.
    To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks. I am very new to this - what does IIWY mean? Also why would it be a struggle if he is in breach? Thanks very much

      Comment


        #4
        Issue s8g10 today. Explain verbally only what "intentionally homeless" will mean to him & that you will copy s8 to council

        No reference or a full, honest one.
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          IIWY = if I were you

          S8 can easily defended & delayed if T raises any disrepair questions.
          Did you comply with all s21 (6A) requirements before issuing?

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you for your responses.

            'Theartfullodger; says I should explain what intentionally homeless means. Again sorry for possibly being a bit dumb on this but surely making themselves intentionally homeless would go against them? Or have I completely misunderstood?

            Also would it not be better to issue a Section 8 under breach of agreement ie he has moved someone else in with no agreement from myself? I have tried to do some background reading on Section 8 and thought that if I did it on arrears of min 2 months this could easily be sorted by paying back some of the arrears - saying that I don't think he has the funds to do that.

            'Mariner' - deposit was secured within the required timeframe, EPC given and up to date on gas certificate etc which I think is all that is needed. There are no disrepair issues that have been bought to my attention.

            Many thanks all for your help - it is very much appreciated.

            Comment


              #7
              You can serve section 8 notice on multiple grounds.

              No sane judge is going to grant a possession order on the basis that someone's partner and children decided to live together, unless there's overcrowding concern or something.
              I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

              I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you KTC. Please can I ask why if a tenant has blatantly breached the agreement and was aware of the need to get partner on the agreement if they moved in, that a judge would look favourably on them, particularly when they also owe a lot of rent. Curious why that would be the case.
                thanks for your time

                Comment


                  #9
                  The rent is a seperate issue. That's why there are 3 rent arrears grounds by itself. The breach of tenancy terms ground explicitly exclude anything to do with rent.

                  Someone renting, the place is their home, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to want to live with their partner and (step-)children.
                  I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                  I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks KTC. It’s the rent or lack of that I have an issue with not the fact that they have moved intogether. Thanks for your help

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by FionaHI View Post
                      Please can I ask why if a tenant has blatantly breached the agreement and was aware of the need to get partner on the agreement if they moved in, that a judge would look favourably on them, particularly when they also owe a lot of rent. Curious why that would be the case.
                      Because in a dispute about breach of contract, the aim is to compensate the party for any loss arising from the breach, with the focus on putting things back how they should have been.

                      For a breach of a term that's quite possibly unfair, being made homeless would be disproportionate.

                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        IIWY = If I were you.

                        The reference to intentional homelessness was to indicate that simply not paying and hoping the council would bail them out is not a good strategy.

                        Given that it will take months to get them out, if they really can't afford the rent, fourteen days seems a bit short . I assume they qualify for means tested benefits. If so, the presumption will be that they will apply to have their rents paid, but this will take time to process. To avoid intentional homeless, they will be advised not to surrender the tenancy (although also to pay as much as they can afford, and seek benefits).

                        The courts take the view that depriving someone of there home is a last resort and have a lot of discretion. As already pointed out, breaching the agreement by bringing in a partner and family is not going to get possession, unless it results in their breaking criminal law, by statutory overcrowding.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by FionaHI View Post
                          .....................
                          'Theartfullodger; says I should explain what intentionally homeless means. Again sorry for possibly being a bit dumb on this but surely making themselves intentionally homeless would go against them? Or have I completely misunderstood?....
                          Yes of course it will go against them: So...
                          a) Let them realise that and then maybe they start paying the rent they owe.. and
                          b) If they persist in owing rent there are more deserving candidates for help and/or rehousing by council than contract-breaking rent-owing scroats. and...
                          c) Leaving aside what you think of councils, they don't have enough staff, money and housing to help those who genuinely deserve help. So help council avoid re-housing such scroats permanently by copying s8 to them then council will give less time and hopefully no or only temporary-then-evicted homeless hostel.


                          .....
                          ....Also would it not be better to issue a Section 8 under breach of agreement ie he has moved someone else in with no agreement from myself? I have tried to do some background reading on Section 8 and thought that if I did it on arrears of min 2 months this could easily be sorted by paying back some of the arrears - saying that I don't think he has the funds to do that.
                          ......................
                          Nope: Breach is not a mandatory ground, v v v unlikely to get an eviction, 2 months arrears is mandatory.

                          But you can serve a valid s8g10 if only 1p is underpaid only 1 day. Sometimes (sadly rarely..) tenants take the hint (happened to me!)

                          NB & I'm in favour of landlords adhering to their responsibilities also. And agents: And MPs....
                          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Talk to him, face to face.
                            Aim is to help him and you.

                            1. explain that failing to pay rent would mean that if evicted he would be considered intentionally homeless and get no housing help from local authority.
                            2. explore his position with benefits and help him apply if necessary; it may be that in this way you can recover the arrears.


                            Also terms that are in the agreement are largely there for LL to claim compensation if they are breached, except where breach is dangerous or illegal. Until you have suffered a loss (which is likely only when tenancy ends) there is little you can do about them.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you all for your help. At the moment we are effectively 6 weeks in arrears. FRom what you have said it seems that the best thing to do is wait until 8 weeks in arrears and then issue S8. Hopefully this will give them a kick up the butt and they will magically find some funds.

                              MdeB - I have spoken with them very politely about the arrears. They are the sort that believe they can pay back at their leisure and I should be grateful! Also under the impression that if you have a rental house you are awash with cash- sadly that is very far from the truth.

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