Section 48: Can you still withhold rent after a tenancy has ended?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Section 48: Can you still withhold rent after a tenancy has ended?

    So my landlord seems to be very ignorant of the law, and in particular; section 48 which states a landlord must provide a tenant with an address in england and wales to which the tenant can serve notices. And if they fail to do this, the tenant can withhold rent. The one the landlord has given us (and in the contract too) is overseas.

    He seems to be very confused about this and he has given us a *future* address in england and wales (via email; the one we are currently renting), and we have told him we want a current in writing (since emails aren't reliable in court), and are refusing to pay any more rent until he has done this, incase we need to sue him (which is looking more and more likely as the tenancy is nearing an end, with unannounced entrances to the property, etc.).

    My question is, must section 47/48 still be complied with after the tenancy? i.e. can we still carry on withholding the rent after the tenancy has ended until he gives us a current address in England and Wales in writing?

    Any advice much appreciated

    P.S. I understand it's a criminal offence for the landlord not to reply within 21 days with a new address - it has now been 28 days. But it is too complex and expensive to prosecute him, and the police aren't willing to get involved in matters like this, so I am hoping instead we can just withhold another few months rent for our last couple of months living here, which will certainly convince him to give us an address.

  • jpkeates
    replied
    Strictly speaking, no one has any idea if mail sent to an address will be received by the addressee.
    Mail diverts exist for that very purpose.

    For a long period, I received mail addressed to me at an address someone else was living in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by KTC View Post
    (Obviously not binding authority) A landlord is not able to satsify s48 once the tenancy has ended : Zafar v Goddard [13 December 2010] Bristol County Court (DDJ Batstone)
    I had a feeling I had seen something, but Googling did not reveal it.

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Please don't recommend blackmail as a solution to OP's problems.......

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by zukias View Post

    Many thanks for your response as always

    The land registry has a "Registered Owner(s)" field with the address being the same address we are renting.
    Then it's likely he's pretending he still lives there... so
    a) He's not been declaring his rental income: "Suggest" to him that unless you get what you want you'll report him to HMRC.... and/or...
    b) He's not got a B2L mortgage but a residential one: Breaching terms of his mortgage, could be re-posessed: ""Suggest" to him that unless you get what you want you'll report him to Lender (....the deeds will give name of only lender...)

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    I think the question is rather whether the landlord can serve a notice at all after the tenancy ends.
    (Obviously not binding authority) A landlord is not able to satsify s48 once the tenancy has ended : Zafar v Goddard [13 December 2010] Bristol County Court (DDJ Batstone).

    However, it's not clear that OP's landlord have never satisfied s48. It does not appear to me that an address for service previously given that is no longer valid (e.g. ex-agent) requries to be updated for the purpose of s48. OP mentioned there were an electronic tenancy agreement, did that include an address for service? Then there's now the address given by email of the rental property. It's an address in England and Wales, but on the other hand it's arguable that it is not one where notices may be served on the landlord by the tenant as the tenant knows for a fact that it wouldn't get to the landlord as it's the tenant's address at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by zukias View Post
    Can I do this even if I know he doesn't live there because... well... I live there.
    No. See Practice Rule 6.9 https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part06#6.9 However, if the landlord gives the address of the rented property as his address for service it seems that notice of proceedings may be served there; see Practice Rule 6.8(b): https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part06#6.8

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by zukias View Post
    My question is, must section 47/48 still be complied with after the tenancy? i.e. can we still carry on withholding the rent after the tenancy has ended until he gives us a current address in England and Wales in writing
    I think the question is rather whether the landlord can serve a notice at all after the tenancy ends. The Act requires the notice to be served by the landlord. If the tenancy has ended can there be a landlord? In respect of the deposit legislation as originally drafted it was held that "tenant" did not include "former tenant". The Act defines "landlord" as "[...] the person who [...] would be entitled to possession of the premises subject to the tenancy".

    Leave a comment:


  • zukias
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    Then you should be able to use that address if you need to go legal.

    If you want the landlord to know what's happening, you could copy things to the overseas address that you have, if you think you'd be better off with the landlord not knowing what's happening, don't.
    You've made more than reasonable efforts to find a more relevant address and the land registry data is a reasonable basis on which to rely.
    Can I do this even if I know he doesn't live there because... well... I live there.

    Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
    Is the landlord a UK person working abroad, or basically a foreign person? Using the property address service may end up with a CCJ by default, but with no real impact on the landlord.

    On the other hand, if the landlord wants the rent, they are going to have to provide a UK address to the courts.
    The landlord has dual citizenship (UK and some EU country). He currently lives overseas but is moving back here in a few months to the address we are renting. At least he thinks he is. He hasn't protected our deposit so he hasn't served a valid s21 which is another thing he seems to be having a hard time understanding. In fact I don't think he understands what a section 21 even is. But that's a story for another time.

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholder64
    replied
    Is the landlord a UK person working abroad, or basically a foreign person? Using the property address service may end up with a CCJ by default, but with no real impact on the landlord.

    On the other hand, if the landlord wants the rent, they are going to have to provide a UK address to the courts.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Then you should be able to use that address if you need to go legal.

    If you want the landlord to know what's happening, you could copy things to the overseas address that you have, if you think you'd be better off with the landlord not knowing what's happening, don't.
    You've made more than reasonable efforts to find a more relevant address and the land registry data is a reasonable basis on which to rely.

    Leave a comment:


  • zukias
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    ...
    Many thanks for your response as always

    The land registry has a "Registered Owner(s)" field with the address being the same address we are renting.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by zukias View Post
    He seems to be very confused about this and he has given us a *future* address in england and wales (via email; the one we are currently renting), and we have told him we want a current in writing (since emails aren't reliable in court
    Emails are almost certainly reliable in court and count as being "in writing".
    So I wouldn't rely on that.
    A future address doesn't satisfy the requirement.

    My question is, must section 47/48 still be complied with after the tenancy? i.e. can we still carry on withholding the rent after the tenancy has ended until he gives us a current address in England and Wales in writing?]
    The rent becomes payable when the information is given.

    I've never heard of a case that gives any indication of whether that is still the case after the tenancy has ended, but there's nothing in the legislaiton to indicate otherwise and "any time" is quite broad.

    Check the land registry for the property you're renting, that might give you an address you can use for legal service.
    Or, if you are suing the landlord after the end of the tenancy, use the property address, as it's all you have.

    Leave a comment:


  • zukias
    replied
    Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
    Assuming you signed a tenancy agreement, how did you deliver that?
    it was digitally signed, organised by the agent

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholder64
    replied
    Assuming you signed a tenancy agreement, how did you deliver that?

    Leave a comment:

Latest Activity

Collapse

Working...
X