Guarantor's Position when New Tenancy Agreement Signed

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Guarantor's Position when New Tenancy Agreement Signed

    Hi All,

    I am a Private Landlord, I have a question about a guarantor who was put in place by a Letting Agent who I employed to find a Tenant for my Property.

    The Agent signed a Tenancy Agreement for a Tenant,
    on a Separate Document Titled 'Individual Guarantor Agreement' had a guarantor sign stating they will be the Guarantor for the Tenant at the Property.

    This Document was signed 12 months ago, for a 'Initial Period of 6 Months'.

    For Various reasons I have fallen out with the Letting agent (as you do).
    After the 6 months of the Tenancy Agreement Lapsing I have signed a Tenancy Agreement directly with the Tenant. (Please bear in mind that the Guarantor Agreement was Signed on a seperate document withe the Letting Agent)

    On a couple of occasions I have had the Tenant show signs of having difficulty paying the Rent, consequently I have contacted the Guarantor to inform them of the concerns.
    The Guarantor then tells me that they signed a Guarantor with the Letting Agent and claims that they are not the Guarantor anymore as the they were only liable for the first 6 months of the Tenancy.
    Presently the Tenant does not owe me a great amount of money, however I still want some kind of re-assurance that the guarantor is in place before the debt mounts.
    (The Guarantor has rang the Letting Agent and they have been told all sorts of things, in my opinion the Agent is playing the 'awkward game' as they have fallen out with me and does not want co-operate in any way).

    I have tried to explain to the Guarantor that the Guarantor Agreement still Stands as,

    The Tenant is the Same
    The Property is the Same
    The Landlord is the Same

    Also there is no agreement with any party /parties absolving the Guarantor of their responsibilities.

    I need to confirm this with the Landlordzone Community, so any responses will help.

    Thank you in Advance









    #2
    It depends what the guarantee agreement says and how it references the agreement.

    There are going to be two complications if the guarantor no longer wishes to be bound by the agreement (without seeing the agreement).
    It's probably invalid if it's not a deed (which would require witnessing).
    It's not viable for a guarantor contract to be open-ended - as the guarantor can't know when they sign how much they're guaranteeing,

    Those two issues tend to affect most guarantor agreements (which are usually pretty useless in practice if the guarantor decides not to honour them, but can still be useful for applying moral pressure to the tenant and guarantor).
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for your reply, JPKeates

      The Guarantor has signed the following declaration,

      The Guarantor declares that,

      I confirm that should the Tenant I act as a Guarantor for default or breach any part of their tenancy/agreement and or fail to make rent payments,charges or cover any damage that mey have been caused to the property, then as a Guarantor I take full responsibilityto cover any loss to the Landlord.

      I hope that gives you more info.

      Comment


        #4
        That's completely useless as a guarantor agreement (other than to apply moral pressure on the person who signed it and the tenant).

        If the guarantor has decided that they're not going to be bound by it (for whatever reason), you haven't really got a way forward, other than giving the tenant notice.

        You could try putting a proper guarantor agreement in place, based on your new tenancy agreement.
        You'd want a deed and the guarantor would need a copy of the agreement that they're guaranteeing and should be encouraged to take independent legal advice before signing it.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Sonnysade View Post
          The Guarantor declares that,

          I confirm that should the Tenant I act as a Guarantor for default or breach any part of their tenancy/agreement and or fail to make rent payments,charges or cover any damage that mey have been caused to the property, then as a Guarantor I take full responsibilityto cover any loss to the Landlord.
          Is that all it says? If not, can we please have the whole thing? Identifying details can be omitted.

          Comment


            #6
            No thats not all it says, this is just in the declaration, I did not really want to give details, all I need to know that the Letting Agent has done their jon right.
            The document also contains the Guarantors Details, its difficult to type out the whole this as its in PDF and contails personal details.

            Comment


              #7
              I was told by the Letting Agents that the Guarantor is for the duration of the Tenancy providing that the Landlord and Guarantor agrees otherwise.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Sonnysade View Post
                No thats not all it says, this is just in the declaration, I did not really want to give details, all I need to know that the Letting Agent has done their jon right.
                The document also contains the Guarantors Details, its difficult to type out the whole this as its in PDF and contails personal details.
                The problem we have is that the wording you quote looks at best problematic. It may be saved by other wording. You could:

                Photocopy the guarantee
                Blank out the personal information
                Scan the blanked out version
                Post the scan

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is all that the Guarantor declaration states, the rest of the form is all about the Guarantor's Personal Details, ie Place of work, salary etc...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    But when you signed a new TA (contract) with the T, a new Tenancy arose, allowing the G to escape liability in future.
                    Ask T to provide another G. or see if old G is prepared to sign a new G form for your current T.

                    If you want advice, we need full disclosure, redacted of any identifiable personal details (eg my Agent), not Joe Bloggs.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You have created a new tenancy and the guarantor has not signed an agreement in advance of the tenancy. The old agreement does not state that they saw a copy of the agreement before signing and that they were advised to take legal advice before doing so. It's probably unenforceable.

                      You cant get a new guarantor now since the tenancy has started. There is dispute about what the consideration can be for a binding contract in a guarantor agreement but you are not offering a guarantor anything. The usual argument is that the tenancy will not proceed without it - and clearly the tenancy has started.

                      What was in the second contract signed with the tenant, specifically the length of the contract? If you are now able to issue Section 21 (is any deposit properly protected?) then sounds like you need a new contract with guarantor or to evict.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sonnysade View Post
                        This is all that the Guarantor declaration states, the rest of the form is all about the Guarantor's Personal Details, ie Place of work, salary etc...
                        That's unlikely to be enforceable and is (almost certainly) useless.

                        If you send a letter to the guarantor indicating that they will be sued if they don't pay, they might be scared into paying, but if you actually go to court, I suspect you'll lose.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thank you all for the replies, makes a lot of sense.
                          I will be more careful with the Letting Agents I employ next time.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sonnysade View Post
                            I will be more careful with the Letting Agents I employ next time.
                            Don't forget to ask if the legal documents they use have been drafted by a landlord and tenant specialist lawyer.

                            Comment

                            Latest Activity

                            Collapse

                            • Tenant referencing
                              Sam87
                              Afternoon,

                              I'm just wondering if letting agents can with hold tenant references if I try and obtain a reference about a potential tenant myself aswell as getting a reference company to so the Same? I currently pay someone to do the referencing however for the 'previous landlord/agent' reference...
                              16-07-2019, 12:34 PM
                            • Tenant withdrawing notice
                              bagus
                              I accepted tenants' notice to quit their SPT mid period. Their leaving date is really badly timed for me (2 weeks into summer hols, preventing me taking the kids abroad).

                              The notice wasn't valid, since it didn't end on the first or last day of the monthly SPT, but I did accept it. Now,...
                              16-07-2019, 08:25 AM
                            • Reply to Tenant withdrawing notice
                              bagus
                              Thanks for the advice. Yes, I suppose it's best to bite my lip and let them walk all over me!
                              16-07-2019, 12:26 PM
                            • How best to handle a "pet" issue?
                              milleniumaire
                              Our tenants have been in our rental for nearly 4 years without issue. The original fixed term tenancy agreement gave way to a periodic tenancy. The tenants have been good, if rather untidy!

                              Over the weekend while performing some maintenance while the tenants were away on holiday for a...
                              16-07-2019, 10:04 AM
                            • Reply to How best to handle a "pet" issue?
                              jpkeates
                              I have kept rabbits and they are probably one of the more property damaging pets you can keep.
                              The urine is a particularly nasty ammonia smell.

                              The tenants will claim that they live outside and are only allowed in occasionally, but indoor rabbits are indoor rabbits.
                              I'd suggest...
                              16-07-2019, 12:13 PM
                            • Council tax debacle.
                              buttons
                              I had a tenant do a runner on the 10th May, I only learned of this on 11th June when no housing benefit was paid to me as it was direct payment.
                              I received the keys from the tenants daughter on the 15th June, she signed a letter stating tenancy was surrendered and keys returned.
                              I wrote...
                              16-07-2019, 12:05 PM
                            • Reply to Council tax debacle.
                              KTC
                              Were the tenancy within a fixed term, contractual periodic, or statutory periodic? If periodic, what's the period of the tenancy (e.g. monthly, quarterly, half-yearly)? If contractual periodic, was there an initial fixed term and if so what was its length?
                              16-07-2019, 12:10 PM
                            • Part of deposit not protected
                              coppernob
                              Hi all,

                              Last December we entered into an AST (initial 6 month fixed term) and paid a deposit of £900, which included a £200 pet deposit for our dog. This full £900 was put into the a deposit protection scheme.

                              Towards the end of January we wished to get another dog, and...
                              16-07-2019, 10:26 AM
                            • Reply to Part of deposit not protected
                              JK0
                              Did your dogs leave any deposits though?
                              16-07-2019, 12:10 PM
                            • Reply to Tenant withdrawing notice
                              sam_cat
                              Let them have their extension. Do check out on your return from holiday. Arrange for a friend to pop around after they have gone to collect keys, check all windows are locked and go from there.
                              16-07-2019, 11:15 AM
                            Working...
                            X