Would you allow an investor to AirB&B your flats ?

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    Would you allow an investor to AirB&B your flats ?

    Hi,

    I've got 2 town centre flats in the conference town of Harrogate that i let out on AST's. I've recent had a really bad experience with a tenant we've had to evict through the courts owning us a lot of money.

    At the same time i've been approached by a property investor who wishes to take both my flats on for 12months so he can cash in on the lucrative AirB&B market in the area.

    Whilst i appreciate i could do this myself i haven't got the time or inclination so based on recent bad experience i'm tempted to go along with him.

    What sort of rent should i expect from him ? - his offer is under the lettable market value for both, i was expecting at least the market value and possibly a bit more seeing the revenue he could possibly bring in on them. Am i being unreasonable with my expectations ?

    Is it a difficult proposition to manage myself ? - like most things looks daunting on the face of it but maybe easier than it appears.

    This is anew area to me so any advice greatly appreciated.

    TIA,
    Mike.

    #2
    I would have thought that similar logic applied to rent to licence as to rent to rent. The general forum advice is never do the latter.

    Comment


      #3
      What do the flat leases say about restrictions on use?

      The person who approached you isn't any kind of "investor", they want to make money without investing.

      Why on earth would you be interested in letting below the market rate?

      There are companies who specialise in doing the work for Airbnb properties, so there's no reason to let someone else make money out of your property.
      As an example (selected randomly, no recommendation implied!) https://www.superhostservices.co.uk
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        IF you would normally pay an agent commission AND investor will pay more than you would get after commission AND you are letting unfurnished AND investor has a home-owning guarantor AND agreement has suitable clauses on state of property on return to you, THEN it might be worth considering.

        Comment


          #5
          As a post says above they are not an investor ........ but i see them as a parasite, acting as a broker and skimming their no doubt substantial profit off what they offer you at below what you expect.... i would not do it, either do it yourself (as suggested above) or put this rubbish tenant down to bad luck and pick better next time.

          Comment


            #6
            Check council willow allow it to be an air b n b firstly secondly what for gas elec heating water he will be liable for all bills. Also wear and tear will increase massively

            Comment


              #7
              And on a practical level... every flat I have seen that has been AirBnB'd has had considerably more than normal FWT, so your dialpidations will increase. WHo will be responsibe for keeping the flats looking attractive enough to rent like that?

              From exprience I have much the same opinion as Hudson01.

              Comment


                #8
                The simple answer is, don't even think about it.

                You are in business to make money. ( eventually )
                WHY O WHY would you then hand over your business for someone else to make profit from it.
                Your thoughts are absolutely mental.

                And the residents there will complain to YOU about scores of people over the year who have keys to maybe a common entrance door, and that the locks must be changed, maybe every week, as people don't hand back keys. . Putting rubbish in the wrong colour bins or someone else's bin that then gets prosecuted. Parking where they like. Having no regard for any one else there. And the list goes on, and you may be taken to court over not complying with the lease.

                If you don't care about the other owners / residents, then proceed with this mental idea.


                Comment


                  #9
                  Most AirBnB is FRAUDULENT!!
                  Name mee ONE freeholder of a block of flats large or small who permits short-term lets.
                  Name me one block insurer that covers short-term lets in the block.
                  Name me a mortgage lender that permits AirBnB especially for a flat.
                  I think there is only 1 lender.

                  In short the majority of AirBnB is illegal
                  Don't do it.
                  If the property is your home and your resi lender gives permission then fine.
                  I don't know of any resi lender that would give such permission.

                  AirBnB is a business founded on FRAUD.
                  IF lenders and insurers find out what you are doing the loan would be called in an you would be on an insurance blacklist for life.
                  Think on!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by paulgbar666 View Post
                    Name mee ONE freeholder of a block of flats large or small who permits short-term lets.
                    Name me one block insurer that covers short-term lets in the block.
                    Name me a mortgage lender that permits AirBnB especially for a flat.
                    I think there is only 1 lender.

                    In short the majority of AirBnB is illegal
                    While all of the points about insurance, mortgage and leases are true, breaking the lease, insurance or lending terms and conditions is a civl matter and isn't actually "illegal".

                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I could take you to a new build of very posh flats owned by a pension fund... they do. I go to it very regularly. It's messy, gets quite fractious, but not illegal!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Deliberately breaching conditions is FRAUD
                        Last time I checked FRAUD was illegal!!!!
                        Of course a lender won't bother prosecuting the fraudster LL.

                        They will just call in the mortgage or repossess the property if the LL doesn't repay the mortgage.
                        The lender will also register the LL on the National Hunter database which will prevent the LL obtaining credit.
                        If a LL has a mortgage that specifies limitations on who may occupy and how; then ANY LL that breaches the conditions is committing fraud on the basis that they stated they would comply with the mortgage conditions but then fraudulently do something else WITHOUT lender permission.
                        Mortgage fraud I think they call it.
                        Prison can easily beckon!!!
                        There are millions of fraudulent tenancies where the LL is totally complicit.
                        AirBnB is just a latest example of LL fraud.
                        The most common fraud is where homeowners let out their residential property without Consent To Let.
                        It is reckoned that there are about 300000 fraudster LL letting out their residential properties on a residential mortgage WITHOUT CTL.
                        LL gaming their mortgages and freeholders is rife.
                        We also have millions of LL letting property to DSS tenants when their mortgage terms specifically PROHIBIT such DSS tenants.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You seems so sure of yourself. Please do educate us by explicit reference to the appropriate section of the Fraud Act 2006 that back up what you're saying.

                          Originally posted by paulgbar666 View Post
                          We also have millions of LL letting property to DSS tenants when their mortgage terms specifically PROHIBIT such DSS tenants.
                          Well, considering DSS have been dissolved since 2001, it's a bit difficult to be in breach of that clause..... And blanket refusal to let to people on benefit is likely to be indirect discrimination under the Equality Act 2010, which as you like to say, is illegal.
                          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Going back to Airbnb........I let a freehold property this way in a very commercial south coast town. The main problem is policing what goes and I do this by only allowing by selection of middle aged couples or singles. However there have still been some strange incidents that have not necessarily caused damage but involved illegalties such as class A use, shoplifted goods left behind etc. There are a lot of people using Airbnb rentals as a cover for unsavoury activities - use your imagination here.

                            I always insist on name and address of the 'guests' as Airbnb will not disclose that to you at all under any circumstance which is quite ridiculous. All this is easy to check out on social media or just google.

                            No way would I let someone else run this on my behalf and in a leasehold building I can imagine there would be a lot of trouble.
                            My advice to OP is Don't.



                            Freedom at the point of zero............

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Many years ago, I rented a property that I then let out as a holiday let - with full consent of the owner. (I was also letting two of my own properties as holiday lets). This was before Airbnb but I used other online holiday let companies to source guests.

                              I paid the market rent and the landlord was happy. Guests would usually stay for 3-7 days and were mainly couples and families on holiday from overseas (although I did have single business visitors who would stay for several weeks to several months).

                              i would strongly disagree with the comments above about excessive wear and tear. The guests were on holiday and were rarely at the property as they were out sightseeing all day. Thorough cleaning was done between each let and any maintenance that was needed would be done promptly before the new guest arrived.

                              i did all the management myself and you should not underestimate the hard work required. I did all the laundry myself and so my own home would constantly have sheets and duvet covers hanging up all over the place to dry. I also did all the cleaning myself as well as having to meet guests to do the check in and check out. Sometimes I would have guests checking in the same day as guests checking out which would be great for avoiding void periods but would leave little time to get the place ready in time. There was also a lot of travelling to and from the property as well as a substantial time replying to emails and acting as a tourist guide answering the many guest queries. I also had to spend a lot of time hanging around outside the property waiting for guests to arrive (often hours late with no notice given). Good customer service skills are also important in replying to guest queries, resolving any issues that arise and welcoming and saying farewell to guests. You would need to be available 24 hrs a day in case of any emergencies and this seriously restricted your free time and holidays.

                              The owner was very pleased with the state of the property when I handed it back as it was thoroughly clean (being cleaned every few days for the majority of the tenancy kept it immaculate) and having to keep the place in tip-top shape to attract guests and get good reviews meant it was undoubtedly in better shape handing it back than when I first took possession.

                              i ended up giving it up because the profit I was making was not enough to compensate for the amount of my time it all took. You do not make as much profit as people assume when you consider that even though your daily rent is greater, you will still usually have a couple of void days per week on average as well as the costs of travel, cleaning, laundry, maintenance & repairs, cancellations, council tax, internet and utility bills.

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