Slightly painful tenant

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    PIV systems are quiet as far as I understand it. I guess it depends on the specific system.

    Trickle vents are the little 'slits/covers' you put in the uPVC window frames.. Whilst they do trickle in some air, in my experience they are ineffective if the tenant still won't open the window.

    If the tenant still refuses a proper PIV system where you are doing the best you absolutely can, then they are being unreasonable. - in this case you are unlikely to appease them unless you can communicate all of this effectively and they're prepared to listen . Either that or they continue with the dehumidifier.

    If they don't want that, then they (and you) have got a choice to make! It needs to be their choice really, unless you just can't bear it anymore! It's this kind of thing that's brought on the end of S21.


      I've got one PIV in a property which is essentially silent.
      I've never been in there at 3 in the morning, so it's possible it's audible when there's absolute silence otherwise, but you certainly can't hear it in the day.
      Possibly children might hear it.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).


        Originally posted by Awesomestow View Post
        Champagnecharly - mould is on two external walls which are Victorian and therefore (I presume) solid. The other walls are well insulated further to a major refurb a couple of years ago. The extent of the mould varies, we've had a damp expert in, it's not damp (rising or otherwise) it's condensation, he's highly experienced and 100% certain, and declined to sell us any damp treatments at all because they won't have any effect.
        If it is solid wall. and whether condensation or not. The problem is that the wall is now unable to breathe as it was before. I wasn't suspecting rising damp although seeing with IR where the cold spots are would help and may assist in putting fault on the installer. Personally i wouldn't consider anything other than rockwool for external on solid walls other than below DPC. And then being carefull with the breahtability of the render there after. Remember solid walls were built with lime mortar. Internally the plastering would (maybe still is ) is/was lime and sand. Lime has the capacity to hold moisture and release far better than gypsum or cementitious products.

        Where i a currently am, there was horrific condensation, so much so that you could visually see the water droplets on the wall. Note this is cavity filled. I decided to strip the paint off including the mould resistant stuff. and believe it or not gloss. .. It took a considerable amount of time. but once stripped (using either paint to wetten the coats below or MAP gas blow torch) and "breathable" paints were used.(not vinyl) the wall was bone dry.. well at least in comparison. Their is still damp because of the inherent defects/ bridge. However allowing the materials to breathe/ absorb moisture and release it instead of covering it up with unbreathable coatings meant that there is no sensory evidence of damp. |m bad for not opening windows. But with the exception of the above and one other property where there was a real problem broken drainage underground i have never suffered with mould on walls.

        Summarise. Problems leading to condensation are:
        1) External insulation (presumably EPS) instead of rockwool EWI
        2) Wall coatings (paint)
        3) Gypsum plaster if it has been used
        4) The breathability of the external render.

        I've heard so many times the blame being put on tennants. ANd yes tennants can make the problem go away. But and the big but is isnt part of it ensuring that on old buildings the materials that are used are respected? I say this knowing full well that you have intended to make the property as cosy as you could and put the blame more on the tradesman who don't give two hoots or just don't quite grasp the concept.

        Think how your body would cope if you went out for a run then wrapped yourself up in clingfilm. Wrapping it up in a wooly jumper may not be comfortable but over time the moisture would escape.

        I like the damp absorbing beads they work 'quite' well.

        Bit of a long shot but are there any other potential sources of moisture? Could water be getting in from outside between the wall and insulation due to poor detailing? Again. although it is confirmed to be condensation if the walls ability to hold MORE moisture is compromised. Starw that broke the camels' back...


          Hi CC. Thanks for this. My understanding is that there's no External Wall Insulation of any kind, nor any render on the external wall - it's all bare brick. Not sure what was done on the inside but it's a plastered wall. It was signed off by Building Control who did seem pretty fussy about quite a lot of stuff. The flat hasn't had problems previously, we do have one other flat in the block which had problems a couple of tenancies back, but from tenants who had jobs that involved doing an awful lot of washing in a smaller flat. Again it was the external walls. Hasn't been a problem in that flat since, or in any of the other flats, which all have the same treatment. Hence feeling it's fundamentally down to the tenant behaviour - though I take the point that their conduct may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

          Ultimately we've fitted an extractor fan and I feel they should try that and see if it fixes the problem. If it doesn't, we can look at a PIV system. But the extractor fan was chosen to be quiet, from what I read about PIV systems they're not going to be any quieter. Would be good to get an actual dB rating but I can't see one.


            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            I've got one PIV in a property which is essentially silent.
            I've never been in there at 3 in the morning, so it's possible it's audible when there's absolute silence otherwise, but you certainly can't hear it in the day.
            Possibly children might hear it.
            Thanks jpk. It's a one bed so children aren't at the property. Tenant does seem noise sensitive though. Knocking a hole in the wall (their preferred solution) will I'm sure be noisier given the location!


              Sorry i was thrown by this:
              Originally posted by Awesomestow View Post
              it’s an old building recently refitted to modern insulation standards, so the two external walls get condensation on them.
              Maybe if you could expand on insulation standards. It could be brick slips over the ewi...

              If gypsum was used and not lime for the internal walls and it went onto lime. It certainly wont help.

              Regards BC i presume. Don'd be overly confident in their own confidence. most construction firms try and use NON council BC officers.

              Anyway.. you have a solution. Good. I hope the tenant can cope with the minimal noise. I personally have them off as they drive me nuts. but i don't have mould issues (anymore). One solution could be to wire in a timer. It could then be set for times they are out of the house and or when they are fast asleep... just a thought.


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