The End of Section 21

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    #76
    Anyone can choose to buy a house, if they have the funds. The type is up to the buyer,
    Current situation was predicted when Maggie T required Councils to sell off their housing stock and introduced Right to Buy for existing Ts. Liverpool sold some of their dilapidated housing for £1.

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      #77
      Originally posted by Arkey75 View Post
      There is, of course, the wider argument that if we didn't have so many greedy bastards buying up housing stock to make a profit at the expense of the less fortunate then we wouldn't really have this problem to begin with. But I'm not supposed to say that, am I?

      Reading comments on this thread, I'm genuinely shocked at the "them and us" attitude that so many people express. You can slate me and try to justify yourselves all you want, but it is a fact that a major problem in society is the lack of affordable housing, in part caused by buying properties to let out on the scale we see now.
      ​​​​​​
      No wonder people suffer mental health problems when they share a property that used to be a house but is now separated by flimsy false walls into several apartments that are no longer fit for habitation by one family, never mind several.

      Again, come up with whatever pathetic excuses you want. Simply, there are none.

      Bye!
      The 2-year-old purpose built apartment that I bought in 2016 was up for sale for 6 months at £95950. No-one bought it. Anyone could have bought it at that time . 10% deposit less than £10k.

      The vendor reduced the price to £89950 and we just happened to be the first to view it when he dropped it. We offered him £85000. He accepted without any quibble.

      Affordable housing? I would say so.

      I fail to see how us buying that prevented someone else from doing so. We put the offer in, no one else did.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Arkey75 View Post
        There is, of course, the wider argument etc
        But not a very good one that stands up to any scrutiny.

        Comment


          #79
          Arkey75 and what about immigration n the last 40 years during which I have been a landlord. "But I'm not supposed to say that, am I?" A quick look on Google shows that the population in the UK in 1975 was just over 56 million. This year is estimated at just under 67 million. There's the major reason for the shortage of accommodation.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            The latest Citylets report on Scotland looks pretty much business as usual.
            I don't think the whole 'it works in Scotland' thing holds any water at all, but I was interested in the report, there seems to be a pattern;

            https://www.citylets.co.uk/research/...tland-2018-q4/

            In the year since (partially) scrapping section 21 in Scotland, rents for 3 bed properties were up 7% and 4 beds were up 10.9%.
            In West Lothian, they went up 34.2%!

            I've been flogging off my larger family homes -most work, least reward, highest risk of political interference.

            Now those figures might not set the world on fire but they certainly float my boat so I may have a re-think.

            Any thoughts?

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              #81
              Originally posted by boletus View Post

              Fully agree with your post, although it can take years of gathering solid evidence. It's a big problem in social housing.
              For every rogue landlord section 21 eviction, there are ten section 21 evictions for ASB.
              Take it away and rogue tenants will act with impunity, knowing they can get away with it.
              100% correct, this is my biggest fear with all the bluster from the govt about stamping down on ' us nasty landlords', i work in an '' industry '' where we deal a lot around the fringes of society and ASB is a big problem in many social housing estates, even with the money and the might of the housing association and police reports getting a court to agree with an eviction is a nightmare, god help any private landlord trying to do the same and provide PROOF, to the satisfaction of the court. I will wait and see what the govt put into the proposals in terms of what is considered a reason for eviction and what evidence is needed, but if its not what i feel comfortable with then i am out, i will sell up and the tenants will have to find alternative places to live.

              Comment


                #82
                I think there is always going to be an internal conflict between the needs of the PRS landlords to have flexible investments and the needs of people to lay down roots and have settled accommodation. PRS is fine when you are young. When I was young I loved the idea of moving around from place to place. Staying in one place seemed excessively boring. I remember when I was a student, speaking to an older lady in the street where I was living at the time and she told me she had lived there for 50 years! I couldn't believe someone would waste their life living in that crappy street in Manchester, (as I saw it then!)

                Now I see things much differently, I am an Assured Tenant and I have a business local to my area and don't need the disruption of moving around all of the time. I would definately rather not be stuck in the PRS (living in a crappy street in Cardiff ), with a rogue landlord hassling me as he is motivated by big £££££ signs if he can only find a way of getting rid of me. I inherited him when the flat went up for auction a few years ago. I think anyone with a RARE security of tenure tenancy that goes to auction is more likely to end up with the more rogue-ish type of landlord unless they are fortunate enough to get a 'pension pot' landlord. If most people had security of tenure tenancies then I don't believe I would so likely to be in this position of being a target.

                We need other options than short term PRS. The fact that hardly any landlords have proven willingly to choose to give ATs only ASTs shows that it is a business model only workable for satisfying short term renting needs. Therefore s21 has to go to improve the situation. And/Or something else (or a lot else) has to be done to secure affordable long term secure housing for people.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by mariner View Post
                  Anyone can choose to buy a house, if they have the funds.
                  People have to have more funds than the landlords who have already built up fund reserves/have access to more funds, and that can be pretty difficult to compete with.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by KeepTheFaith View Post
                    Now I see things much differently, I am an Assured Tenant and I have a business local to my area and don't need the disruption of moving around all of the time. I would definately rather not be stuck in the PRS (living in a crappy street in Cardiff ), with a rogue landlord hassling me as he is motivated by big £££££ signs if he can only find a way of getting rid of me. I inherited him when the flat went up for auction a few years ago. I think anyone with a RARE security of tenure tenancy that goes to auction is more likely to end up with the more rogue-ish type of landlord unless they are fortunate enough to get a 'pension pot' landlord. If most people had security of tenure tenancies then I don't believe I would so likely to be in this position of being a target.

                    We need other options than short term PRS. The fact that hardly any landlords have proven willingly to choose to give ATs only ASTs shows that it is a business model only workable for satisfying short term renting needs. Therefore s21 has to go to improve the situation. And/Or something else (or a lot else) has to be done to secure affordable long term secure housing for people.
                    Forgive me, but it sounds a bit like you've been swallowing all of the BBC rhetoric.

                    Of all reasonable landlords (and that's most), there is absolutely no reason to issue a section 21, provided that the property is not being damaged, tenants not upsetting the neighbours and paying their fair rent.

                    Most of us take pride in ensuring we offer good quality well maintained property at fair and reasonable rent (in most cases below market rates to keep good tenants for the long term).

                    It seems to be the latest fashion to blame them arsehole millionaire landlords. In reality for most of us, after deductions and tax, it's marginally worth the risk - one bad tenant trashing the place can put you back years.
                    Remove the ability to move a bad tenant on sees the risk increase by such a massive order of magnitude, therefore making the business not viable.

                    Good tenants like yourself have nothing to worry about with any reasonable landlord. Your problem will come when rents go up as a result of this, because most of us will bail out and you'll be left with even fewer housing options.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by flexy View Post
                      Of all reasonable landlords (and that's most), there is absolutely no reason to issue a section 21, provided that the property is not being damaged, tenants not upsetting the neighbours and paying their fair rent.
                      That's true for most landlords, but not all.
                      I made the same argument for a long time, because I couldn't imagine serving notice to a decent tenant.

                      Then someone showed me a set of data that correlated increasing rents and section 21 notices.
                      Where rents increased the most, the number of s21 notices was disproportionately high (really and obviously higher).
                      Tenants were being moved on to introduce higher rent paying tenants.

                      But that wasn't a national issue, it was confined to some boroughs of London, Cambridge and a couple of other places.

                      My feeling is that because the issue is London centric, that's where a lot of this pressure comes from.
                      I live in the West Midlands, and the void and cost of evicting a tenant means that there's absolutely no incentive to use a s21 unless there's a huge problem (which doesn't usually arise).
                      I'd lose more in a routine month's void than any feasible increase in rent would return over a year or so.
                      And I can increase the rent from time to time.

                      But that's not the experience of the people who live in London and the South East.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Well it sounds like we are in similar circumstances. Issuing s21 is absolutely the last thing I want to do.

                        I have a single property (which was my parents and family home before their death) had to issue s21 once because a bad tenant was wrecking the place and upsetting the neighbours - it was not a pleasant experience. Subsequently requiring many thousands in repairs way beyond the deposit (which I gave them bad in good faith, because I just wanted them to go!).

                        I can't honestly see an 'upgrading' of an s8 being workable. The risk becomes too high for me and as they say in the dragon's den... I'm out!

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Hopefully you've had your "one in X" bad tenants and can have a run of better ones.

                          I'm waiting to see what actually happens.
                          This is only one of several "end of the private landlord" issues we've been through, and, yet, here we all are...
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #88
                            I hope so...

                            I've got a good tenant at the moment, so I keep the rent well below market rates to keep him in there! Anything that requires fixing is done usually within 48 hours (often less).

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by flexy View Post

                              Forgive me, but it sounds a bit like you've been swallowing all of the BBC rhetoric.
                              I actually haven't seen any BBC reports. There was me thinking I had sat here thinking of things on my own only to discover lots of others have similar ideas!

                              Originally posted by flexy View Post
                              Of all reasonable landlords (and that's most), there is absolutely no reason to issue a section 21, provided that the property is not being damaged, tenants not upsetting the neighbours and paying their fair rent.

                              Most of us take pride in ensuring we offer good quality well maintained property at fair and reasonable rent (in most cases below market rates to keep good tenants for the long term).

                              It seems to be the latest fashion to blame them arsehole millionaire landlords. In reality for most of us, after deductions and tax, it's marginally worth the risk - one bad tenant trashing the place can put you back years.
                              Remove the ability to move a bad tenant on sees the risk increase by such a massive order of magnitude, therefore making the business not viable.
                              Of course there are lots of fair minded good landlords around that actually take seriously their position of responsibility in providing homes for people.


                              Originally posted by flexy View Post
                              Good tenants like yourself have nothing to worry about with any reasonable landlord. Your problem will come when rents go up as a result of this, because most of us will bail out and you'll be left with even fewer housing options.
                              Well like I said in my post the chances of me personally getting a reasonable landlord while s21 is around is slim. If they get rid of s21 then the value of my flat should increase quite significantly (as my AT will no longer be anything special) then I hope to god my current landlord decides to sell up and I get a better one! (The downside is that there is less chance I would be able to buy my current flat in terms of affordability, but as I would be the freeholder then of the miseries downstairs leaseholders whom I have had problems with, buying it probably wouldn't be a good idea anyhow!).

                              I don't think it will end up being that bad for landlords because they are not likely ever to get rid of the landlord's ability to gain vacant possession if they genuinely want to sell. A lot may walk out yes. But that together with less immigration and more house building may make it a lot more viable for tenants to buy their own homes in the long term.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by KeepTheFaith View Post
                                I don't think it will end up being that bad for landlords because they are not likely ever to get rid of the landlord's ability to gain vacant possession if they genuinely want to sell. A lot may walk out yes. But that together with less immigration and more house building may make it a lot more viable for tenants to buy their own homes in the long term.
                                Maybe, yes. Given the current performance coming from the house of commons, I'm not holding up any hope!

                                I wish you good luck with your landlord! :-/ But please don't tar us all with the same brush.

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