Section 21 grey area help needed

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    Section 21 grey area help needed

    Good Morning ,
    some advise would be great please . Long winded I’m sorry ,So I served a section 21 notice in Dec as a no fault eviction. The tenant went to the council who emailed me to say this was invalid as I had not give the tenant a how to rent guide, I didn’t know one was needed. So a new section 21 was produced with the how to rent guide also. When my tenant moved in 2014 she didn’t give me a deposit she said she would but never did. We had a AST which I didn’t renew last year totally regretting now . But the issue I have now is at the time of 2014 A EPC wasn’t needed so one wasn’t done and there isn’t one now although I sent someone to do one who was then denied full house access . I think I’ve served everything that’s need for the section 21 but not sure now there is a gas safety certificate , how to rent guide no deposit scheme as she didn’t give me one . Also since serving the section 21 in Dec she’s stopped paying the rent . If anyone could help that would be much appreciated . Her date on section 21 is to go Sunday but I’ve now been told she won’t .

    #2
    Make sure the council know that she is not paying rent, as that will cause them to treat her as intentionally homeless. Get written confirmation that the EPC assessor was refused access and that reasonable notice was given. Make several attempts.

    Handing the keys over before receiving the deposit was a bad move, as they could no try to claim that they paid in cash.

    Comment


      #3
      Okay I’ll do that . Do you think because of no EPC that the 21 is invalid then . And I should persue getting it done.

      I know she was a mutual friend and I’ve well and truly had my fingers burnt . I do have witness though to say no deposit was given . This isn’t the first house she has done this too .
      Thank you for your reply

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        #4
        I'm not sure about the EPC. Have you ever renewed the tenancy?

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          #5
          I think you're going to need professional help to sort this out, because I don't think you're going to be able to sort it out yourself.

          An EPC was needed when you let the property (although that wasn't something related to s21 at the time).
          It's a requirement before any property is let - it has to be part of any advert or made available before the tenancy starts.

          I'm not sure that one is neccessary for a s21 notice related to a tenancy that began in 2014.
          But that's far from certain - the regulations aren't clear and courts have acted on them in different ways.
          If the EPC was required, having tried to get one done and failed isn't going to help.

          That definitely applies to the how to rent guide (which didn't exist at that point in time).

          So I wouldn't take any more advice from the council - who are not on your side.

          It will be very difficult to overcome the issue of the deposit not being protected, as you will have to overcome any claim from the tenant that it was - you will probably need someone to make a decent argument in court, which is something that most people find very difficult.

          If the tenant isn't paying rent, using s8 might be easier than serving a series of invalid s21 notices.
          Last edited by jpkeates; 08-02-2019, 08:48 AM. Reason: Rewrote to make my points clear - made some stupid mistakes!!
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Great thank you ! Im
            waiting for a solicitor to get back to me at the moment .
            I didn’t do a new agreement only the first one I know I should have I had two close family bereavements so everything went in the back burner no excuse I know . Many thanks for replying .

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by helop897 View Post
              Great thank you ! Im
              waiting for a solicitor to get back to me at the moment .
              I didn’t do a new agreement only the first one I know I should have I had two close family bereavements so everything went in the back burner no excuse I know
              There was no need to do a new agreement, and that would actually be very helpful in this case.
              So don't worry about that.

              Good to know you're talking to a solicitor - everything will take ages and will be stressful and expensive.
              But you'll win in the end.

              Make sure that you make every effort you can to recover everything the tenant owes.
              If they don't pay, make sure you register any court judgement against them - that will protect others from going through the same problem.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                I’ve just look on the first agreement it say 0.00 deposit has been taken . Would this help .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Lovely thank you so much for your help .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by helop897 View Post
                    I’ve just look on the first agreement it say 0.00 deposit has been taken . Would this help .
                    If the first agreement is all there is, that's very helpful.

                    If there's another one after that that says something else, less so.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you !

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If you only ever had the one signed AST that started in 2014, which ended, and then you've been on what's called a statutory periodic tenancy ever since, then the How to Rent is not a pre-requisite (and neither does the lack of EPC or GSC affect section 21). Get your solicitor to sort it out.
                        I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It seems to me that your S21 notice is not invalidated by
                          1. Non-service of EPC, GSC, and How to Rent
                          2. Failure to protect the deposit.
                          because
                          1. The Assured Shorthold Tenancy Notices and Prescribed Requirements (England) Regulations 2015 clearly state at 1.(3) and 1.(4) that they only apply to tenancies granted on or after 1 October 2015 (which means they do not apply to tenancies granted earlier), and no other regulations have been introduced for earlier tenancies.
                          2. No deposit was taken, and that is recorded in the tenancy agreement.
                          so, if it is not invalid for any other reason, you should be able to use it to gain possession.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you everyone solicitor ringing at 2 fingers crossed

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Update
                              so the Solicitor served a section 8 which expired were now waiting for a court date for possession.
                              The tenant messaged me last week saying she could move out In two weeks if I give a reference 😂. Obviously I can’t give a good reference as there’s arrears . After me tell the council woman some truths she hasn’t emailed my either . Fingers crossed for a easy possession order .

                              Comment

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