Joint Tenancy Agreement - Help!

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    Joint Tenancy Agreement - Help!

    Good Morning,

    I'm looking for some help regarding a joint tenancy agreement I am part of. Last year I moved into a flat with another girl (who I met on spareroom) and entered a joint tenancy agreement with her. This agreement has no minimum contract length and is on a month by month basis, with both of us responsible for paying our half of the rent. I have decided that I need to move out of the flat because my housemate has been making my life hell. She makes, and leaves a massive amount of mess around the property and has recently been having friends over who stay up until the early hours of the morning playing loud music and shouting. I won't fully go into the details but I have reached a point where I have decided my only option is to move out. Luckily I have been able to find another room available for rent in a private landlords house, and will be moving in next Weekend. I have decided that I am going to move my stuff out of the house while my housemate is at work next Saturday and then tell her I have moved out. I don't want to tell me roommate I am moving out yet as I'm worried she will become very hostile.

    The problem is i'm not sure how I can get out of my current joint tenancy agreement with her. I know that I cannot end the tenancy without her agreeing to it, and my estate agent has advised me my housemate will need to decide if she wants to take on the full rent herself, or find someone to replace me. The problem is i'm not sure what position this leaves me in? How long will I still be required to pay rent, and what if my current housemate takes no action and my name remains on the lease?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated

    Cheers

    #2
    Nope, for a joint tenancy any one of the joint tenants can serve valid notice which ends tenancy for ALL. Agent is wrong.

    See
    http://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/...nt_tenancies#2

    Give notice, in writing, keep copy, ending at an end-of-tenancy period date with at least one month notice. So if your month-by-month tenancies go 9th to 8th of month you could give notice today, but not expiring until 8th March. Make sure notice says "end tenancy" not just "I am leaving" as I am leaving does not end tenancy.

    &
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...riodic_tenancy
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mp590 View Post
      I know that I cannot end the tenancy without her agreeing to it
      You have been misinformed. As your tenancy is from month to month you can end it by giving a notice to quit without referring to the other tenant. You will be liable to pay rent up to the date the notice expires.

      Comment


        #4
        No joint T can end a T before end of fixed Term & Tenancy has bec ome SPT.

        Please complete & paste https//forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/66253-important-information-required-from-all-new-posters as your OP is confusing due to lack of Tenancy info.

        https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...ll-new-posters

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mariner View Post
          No joint T can end a T before end of fixed Term & Tenancy has bec ome SPT.
          Not correct. Not all tenancies can become SPTs:
          1. If tenancy is periodic from the start (as OP says this one is).
          2. If tenancy agreement is for tenancy to continue on a periodic basis

          Comment


            #6
            Please post the information as requested by mariner at #4.

            Please also include the following from your agreement:
            1. Exact wording of the term of the tenancy, from your agreement.
            2. Exact wording of any clauses for tenant notice to end the tenancy.
            That information will allow is to give you more-accurate advice.

            Comment


              #7
              Just to clarify posts 4 and 5

              For tenants:

              If an assured tenancy is a fixed term tenancy which is not expressed to continue, no notice may be given during the fixed term to end any statutory periodic tenancy which may arise after the fixed term ends.

              If an assured tenancy is a fixed term tenancy which is expressed to continue when the fixed term ends, the original tenancy continues. Accordingly, no statutory periodic tenancy arises. Since the fixed term and continuation are all one tenancy notice may be given before the fixed term expires to end the tenancy after the fixed term has expired.

              Comment


                #8
                The OP has confirmed that there was no minimum contract length and that it began as a monthly contract.

                Whether or not the contract wording means that subsequent months arise as a new statutory periodic tenancy or are a continuation of the original tenancy on a contractual basis, one of the tenants must be able to serve notice to end the tenancy.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Err.... a joint tenant can serve a valid notice to quit without the agreement of the other joint tenant only if the tenancy agreement doesn't explicitly specify otherwise.

                  This would definitely be the case for an statutory periodic tenancy that remains assured because of s5(3)(e) of the Housing Act 1988, but since the OP's tenancy has been periodic from the beginning, that may not be the case.
                  I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                  I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by KTC View Post
                    Err.... a joint tenant can serve a valid notice to quit without the agreement of the other joint tenant only if the tenancy agreement doesn't explicitly specify otherwise.
                    Is there express authority for that?

                    If there is not, I would say that such a provision went against the principle that no one can be bound to an arrangement indefinitely against his will.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Not explicitly in a case where that decision was required that I'm awared of, but the authority for the common law rule that one joint tenant can give notice unilaterally to end the whole periodic tenancy is Hammersmith & Fulham LBC v Monk [1991] UKHL6. In that, the judgment given for a CPT which did not have such a term was:

                      unless the terms of the tenancy agreement otherwise provide, notice to quit given by one joint tenant without the concurrence of any other joint tenant is effective to determine a periodic tenancy
                      .

                      The very first paragraph in Sims v Dacorum Borough Council [2014] UKSC 63 summing of Hammersmith said likewise.
                      I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                      I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        unless the terms of the tenancy agreement otherwise provide, notice to quit given by one joint tenant without the concurrence of any other joint tenant is effective to determine a periodic tenancy
                        There is certainly enough there to argue the point. One suspects the beginning words were inserted because there had been no case where the terms of the tenancy required notice by both parties. Further, since it was not required, the judge did not consider what the effect of such a term would be. We can speculate a bit.

                        Two questions occur to me:

                        The first is whether it is possible to enter into an indefinite obligation where the obligation is generally of a kind where at any given moment both parties know the earliest date on which the arrangement can be ended.

                        The second is whether the purported grant of a periodic tenancy to two or more persons containing a provision that a notice to quit must be given by all the tenants is void to grant a tenancy. It is one of the requirements of a tenancy that at any given moment both parties know its maximum duration. There is no problem from the landlord's side as he knows the tenancy continues until all the tenants serve a notice to quit. However, each tenant individually does not know the maximum duration as he has no control over when the tenancy ends, needing the cooperation of the other(s). Considered collectively, the tenants do not know when the tenancy will end until they have served a joint notice and accordingly do not know the maxiumum duration at any given moment.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I don't see a problem in certainity. The tenancy is still a term of years absolute determinable by notice as required by the Law of Property Act 1925. If you're considering the tenant collectively as opposed to individually, even less issue as "the tenant" can clearly give notice whether it's made up of one individual or multiple.

                          Isn't there action that joint owners, leaseholders etc. can only take/enforce if all the joint owners agree?

                          I think there may be more fruit for a joint tenant being held to a tenancy against their continued will arguing against the clause on the basis of unfairness under consumer right laws.
                          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by KTC View Post
                            Isn't there action that joint owners, leaseholders etc. can only take/enforce if all the joint owners agree?
                            There are a number of actions where that applies (owners on a joint tenancy basis selling the property being the most obvoius that springs to mind).
                            But the tenancy agreement creating a joint and several liability arises from contract not common or land law.
                            It's actually a different notion of being "joint" - which is always an issue where the two strands of law overlap.

                            I think there may be more fruit for a joint tenant being held to a tenancy against their continued will arguing against the clause on the basis of unfairness under consumer right laws.
                            It's probably a misleading omission not to have told the parties signing the contract of it's eternal effect.

                            It's probably also a resolution in contract law.
                            There's no possible way that a person signing a joint tenancy agreement with a contractual tenancy could intend to be bound to it by the inaction of another joint and several tenant forever (unless they initialled a statement to that effect in huge red letters having taken legal advice).


                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              One suspects the beginning words were inserted because there had been no case where the terms of the tenancy required notice by both parties.

                              Should have read:

                              One suspects the beginning words were inserted because there had been no case where the terms of the tenancy required notice by both or all tenants.

                              Comment

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