Ending a company let during the fixed term

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Coincidence?
    https://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/20...ty-subtenants/

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    ff.. s48 & s3 are for the occupiers of the property who hold tenancies: To be served AFTER the superior tenancy has been ended. I expect you have at least given the company something to laugh about.

    As advised in my post #46 above...

    Still awaiting details of the break clauses.

    Leave a comment:


  • twostepsbehind
    replied
    To the Ltd comp, not the occupiers

    It said I am the new landlord and name and adresss clearly written as new landlords details

    I think it meets the requirements. Simple enough or have I missed something?

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by twostepsbehind View Post
    I sent letters specifically saying I’m the new owner and this is my name and address - would that satisfy the requirements of the notices?
    To whom or what did you send these letters, please? Have you read s48 & s3?? If not, suggest you do...
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/48
    &

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/3
    - and decide if your letter complies, fully, with both, then let us know, please?

    What training have you done in landlord/tenant law, please?

    Leave a comment:


  • twostepsbehind
    replied
    I sent letters specifically saying I’m the new owner and this is my name and address - would that satisfy the requirements of the notices?

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    This is just more confirmation that you need to get some advice.
    The requirements of the Landlord and Tenant and 1985 and 1987 apply to tenancies generally, and, it's likely that if you haven't served them on the company, your notice isn't valid - because you aren't yet the company's landlord.

    I'm not sure what relevance the LTA 1954 has.

    Leave a comment:


  • twostepsbehind
    replied
    Sorry que was, should I have served these notices on the Ltd comp, were they entitled to these notices as they are commercial tenants on a lease outside of LTA 1954

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    You serve the notices on the occupants, not the limited company.

    You should probably stop doing things and take advice from a professional.
    If you serve the notices and the previous tenancy hasn't ended, you could start getting into some serious trouble.

    We can answer hypothetical questions based on what you tell us but don't confuse that with legal advice.

    You need to be very sure that your notice is valid, and nothing you are posting gives me that confidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • amirulh
    replied
    the tenancy agreement between you and the company should come with a break clause, I know the one I use comes with a 6 month break clause.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Nope: AFTER tenancy with company has ended the s3 & s48 notices are to be served on the occupants who held tenancy with company:

    Do you have copies of those tenancies, please?

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by twostepsbehind
    There is a break clause and a break notice has been served, but they don’t accept the lease can end like this.

    The Ltd company doesn’t occupy the property.

    The sub tenants become my tenants automatically after the break date.

    Surely I don’t need a court order - is the ball in their court to start proceedings if they want to challenge the break

    Is it as simple as the Ltd comp simply not a part of the equation once their lease ends?

    Thanks all for your great help so far!
    Ummnnn not sure, I am not a lawyer but over on gov.uk
    https://www.gov.uk/terminating-a-com...ty-lease-early
    Break clause


    This is an official date in the lease, agreed by the landlord and tenant, where the lease can be ‘broken’ without anyone facing a penalty. As a tenant, you need to give your landlord 2 months notice that you are using the break clause. As a landlord, you can only use it if your tenant agrees.
    You might get a more qualified response to your query over at
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...erty-questions

    - but, once the tenancy with the company has been ended (I'm not convinced it has been, particularly given gov.uk comments) then I agree with jpkeats' suggestions of serving s48 & s3 notice(s), I'd also refer to s18 of HA 1988 which is how you become landlord when the occupants' landlord's tenancy end (ending the superior tenancy)- see
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/18

    May I also humbly repeat...
    What, if anything, EXACTLY does the tenancy agreement say about landlord and/or tenant ending the tenancy, please?


    - in particular the EXACT wording of BOTH break clauses (that for tenant-the company- & that for landlord- you)
    (It's quite easy to get the wording of break clauses wrong...)

    Not trying to be too gloomy but if & when you succeed in ending tenancy with company, as presumably you might not have all the paperwork concerned with the occupant's tenancy you might find s21 is invalid or you can't prove it's valid...

    Let us know how things progress.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    It's a notice under Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 and probably Section 3 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.

    Almost any solicitor in a town or city will do this kind of stuff pretty routinely.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    You can't illegally evict the company as they are not an occupant.

    I would take some professional legal advice.
    If your notice is valid, it ends the tenancy and you can simply serve notice to the occupants that you are their landlord (this has to have specific contents, so, again legal advice is helpful).
    If it isn't valid, it doesn't end the tenancy - and you need to be certain you've got it right.

    If you serve notice to the occupants and they start to pay you rent and the notice wasn't valid, you could be sued by the company.

    At the same time, suggest that the company takes legal advice if they don't accept that you can end the lease - they're not going to take your word for it, so they need a second opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    I repeat
    What, if anything, EXACTLY does the tenancy agreement say about landlord and/or tenant ending the tenancy, please?
    - in particular the EXACT wording of BOTH break clauses (that for tenant-the company- & that for landlord- you)

    In your shoes I would start court proceedings to end the tenancy between you & company as illegal eviction is a criminal offence that landlords can & have gone to jail for.

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    What, if anything, EXACTLY does the tenancy agreement say about landlord and/or tenant ending the tenancy, please?
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    Leave a comment:

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