Longest most secure tenancy available?

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  • Arty1
    started a topic Longest most secure tenancy available?

    Longest most secure tenancy available?

    Hi,
    I’m looking for some advice please. I rent my house, my mums long term partner owns the property outright. We are wanting to sort out a tenancy agreement or whatever, that will give me security to stay in the rental property for as long as I want or as long as a tenancy can be. We want to ensure that In the event of his illness or death that no one in his family,(he is leaving the house to the other side of the family - but wants me to be able to live here as long as I wish), would be able to hike the rent up or force me out.
    We have seen something called a tenancy deed of 6 years, etc, which would be ok I guess, but no clue where to get one?
    All advice greatly appreciated!

  • KeepTheFaith
    replied
    Originally posted by Arty1 View Post
    Thank you for your replies.

    I have explained our options to him and has said that he isn’t willing to go to a solicitor, (Very old school-stuck in his ways). This will leave me with less protection, but that’s the way it is unfortunately, do our best bet is now an assured tenancy. Where can one be purchased please?
    You could still go to a Solicitor yourself and seek independent advice.

    I am an Assured Tenant and in the situation where it is no longer the original Landlord. My current Landlord’s aim seems to be to try every which way to try and get rid of me and I have had his Solicitor trying to find creative ways and loopholes to achieve it. Even if he doesn't find a loophole I still have to keep engaging in legal games with him and have all the stress and hassle and feeling under threat. So if you go the assured tenancy route make sure you get the best advice possible from someone very knowledgeable in this area of law and be especially careful of how the rent increase clause is drafted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Obviously a non-shorthold assured tenancy has to be better for you than an assured shorthold tenancy.

    If you already have have an assured shorthold tenancy (which it seems you may do) then no new agreement is in fact required. You just get the landlord to sign a notice as follows and hand it to you:

    Notice under paragraph 2 of schedule 2A to the Housing Act 1988

    To [insert your name]

    [insert address of property]

    The assured tenancy of the above property under which you are tenant is no longer an assured shorthold tenancy.

    Date [insert date]

    Signed............................................ .....

    [insert name of landlord]


    If you do not have an assured shorthold tenancy or for some other reason a new agreement is required then if you are going to do this yourself you need to get a good precedent. Either choose the government one https://assets.publishing.service.go...g_Guidance.pdf or select one from an up-to-date book you find in your local library.

    Strictly, there can be no such thing as an assured shorthold tenancy agreement because whether a tenancy is shorthold depends on the statutory conditions being fulfilled. What you will find is tenancy agreements suitable for use where it is expected that the tenancy will be shorthold and which are called assured shorthold tenancy agreements. In practice these are just tenancy agreements which may or may not contain a clause saying that the tenancy will be an assured shorthold tenancy. One of these will do to create a non-shorthold assured tenancy so long as (a) you remove any provisions which say that the tenancy is to be an assured shorthold tenancy and (b) include a clause which says that the tenancy is not an assured shorthold tenancy.

    If the new tenancy is to be for more than three years let us know.

    For belt and braces, after the new agreement has been entered into, a notice in the above form can be given.



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  • jpkeates
    replied
    "[V]ery old school" is basically another way of saying "stupid" in this case.
    Or they're not interested in protecting your ability to stay in the property.

    Your "best bet" is, almost certainly, not an assured tenancy because an assured tenancy doesn't bring any of the benefits you are looking for.
    So, you're going to have to find one, edit it to try and make it do what you want (which you're not qualified to do) and you'll get it wrong.

    And I don't want to help you do that, personally.
    What you're trying to do is a very bad idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arty1
    replied
    Thank you for your replies.

    I have explained our options to him and has said that he isn’t willing to go to a solicitor, (Very old school-stuck in his ways). This will leave me with less protection, but that’s the way it is unfortunately, do our best bet is now an assured tenancy. Where can one be purchased please?

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Or do what Lawcruncher said.

    Leave a comment:


  • KTC
    replied
    Arty1, talk to a solicitor if you want to be sure of getting things right. It'll be worth however much it cost in the long term.

    Originally posted by Arty1 View Post
    Assured Tennancy (NOT SHORTHOLD) periodic - will it say periodic on it?
    Just mean a tenancy without a minimum fixed term, and thus is periodic from the start. It can be weekly, two-weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly etc. periodic and it wouldn't make a difference apart from the minimum length of notice required by you if you ever want to serve notice to end the tenancy.

    Originally posted by Arty1 View Post
    We must include a clause to state no rent increase, (would we put a tiny increase in the interest of fairness)?
    "To be enforceable, a rent review clause need only contain the mechanism for increasing the rent. It does not need to specify by how much and when the rent will increase." - Shelter

    The clause can cap the amount of any increase, but it must allow the landlord if he so choose to increase the amount of rent.

    Originally posted by Arty1 View Post
    Could I be evicted for breach of tenancy?
    Of course.

    Originally posted by Arty1 View Post
    Can I give notice to end tenancy in future iif i should wish to?
    Yes.

    Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
    In addition you can be evicted in order to redevelop the land.
    Yes, good point.

    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    The partner's will could ...
    Any sort of conditional gifts, make sure you talk to a wills and probate solicitor to get the wording right so it's enforceable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Do not try and DIY this one. You need a solicitor or other professional conveyancer as there are many traps for the unwary. What is needed is often referred to as, but is not strictly, a "lease for life". What you actually do is grant a lease for a long period and give both parties the right to terminate it after the tenant dies. How long depends on how old the tenant is. To be safe, assume the tenant will live to be 110. It is really important that the lease contains the right clauses. Apart from ensuring that the lease is technically correct so that the intentions of the parties are realised, issues such as who is to repair which parts of the property and who is to insure at whose cost, need to be addressed. The lease will also need to be registered at HM Land Registry.

    Providing in a will for a right to occupy does not give an immediate right and of course wills can be changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • tatemono
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    The partner's will could leave the property on the proviso that you are allowed to continue to live there
    that's exactly what my mum's will did for her property in London when she died living overseas to ensure that although my sister and I inherited the property, her husband (no relation to us) could still live in the property for as long as he wanted.

    In the event, he never returned from overseas and only outlived her by 6 months so never became an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    This probably isn't best resolved as a tenancy. I'd talk to a family solicitor about the issue.

    For example, a trust should work. The trust manages the property in line with the partner's wishes - you to live there as you plan and then the property is to be "returned" to whoever.

    The partner's will could leave the property on the proviso that you are allowed to continue to live there (a variation on the trust).

    The partner could transfer a tiny share in the property (1% or so) - the value should be low enough to avoid tax. When you are joint owners (if you're in England and Wales) both parties have to agree to any sale (or a change of use). The relative share shouldn't matter. So whoever inherited the property couldn't sell it without your agreement. Your rent would become a contribution to the upkeep of the property, so you couldn't be evicted for not paying it.

    There are probably other alternatives that haven't occurred to me, but I think the tenancy route is a bit of a red herring.

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholder64
    replied
    Even long leaseholders on low rents can be evicted if they breach the lase; it's called forfeiture in that case. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...ssured_tenants

    In addition you can be evicted in order to redevelop the land.

    I think you mean a template tenancy agreement, rather than the tenancy. You always get the tenancy, which has no physical form, from the landlord.

    Given you requirements, you get a solicitor to draft it.

    If for more than three years, it must be deed.

    All deeds need signing by a witness.

    If for more than seven years, it must be registered with the Land Registry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arty1
    replied
    Thank you so much for the replies!

    KTC, am I right in thinking we need:

    Assured Tennancy (NOT SHORTHOLD) periodic - will it say periodic on it?
    We must include a clause to state no rent increase, (would we put a tiny increase in the interest of fairness)?
    Do we still need a deed?
    Would I be safe if the house was to be sold to a third party?
    Could I be evicted for breach of tenancy?
    Where can we get the tenancy from and would it need to be witnessed?
    Can I give notice to end tenancy in future iif i should wish to?

    Sorry for all the questions! We are totally new and naive to all this. He has asked me to get this all sorted for a while, but I haven’t had a clue what we need.

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    I stand corrected ktc!

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  • KTC
    replied
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    An AST may be up to 7 years
    No length limit to an AST. A lease longer than 3 years must be by deed. Landlord's repairing obligations does not apply to a lease of 7 years or longer.

    I'm thinking an assured (non-shorthold) tenancy that's periodic from the start could work. If the tenancy agreement does not say anything about assignment, then the tenant cannot assign the tenancy without the permission of the landlord, who can refuse conent for any reason reaonsonable or otherwise. If notice under Schedule 2 Ground 1 isn't given before the tenancy starts, then the landlord would not be able to recover possession on the basis that they want to live in it, or that they had previously lived in it. For the rent bit, if the tenancy agreement contains a rent review clause, then section 13 rent increase notice wouldn't apply. The future his family landlord would be able to end the tenancy through court with a section 8 ground 7 notice within 12 months in the case of the OP's death, so live there as long as you like but tenancy can be ended once you die. The only possible catch to watch out for is (maximum of one) statutory succession. The tenant's partner if living there as principal home would succeed to the tenancy on the same terms, and won't be able to be evicted if no section 8 grounds are met.

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  • leaseholder64
    replied
    I think the literal answer is a 999 long lease with a peppercorn ground rent.

    Leave a comment:

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