Landlord refusing to accept notice to quit

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    Landlord refusing to accept notice to quit

    I am currently renting a property as of 09/10/17 and have a 1 year fixed term ending 08/09/18. I am moving out as of the end of my fixed term, and gave notice to my landlord on 08/09/18 through a hand posted written notice. I also text her giving her my notice as all our communication is usually through text. As she is currently out of the country she has not picked up my written notice in the letterbox. The address she had given to address the notice to is actually my own address. The landlady has a post box downstairs she uses for business purposes, so I simply went downstairs and posted in her letter box.

    I then emailed her as I didn't get a response after this, and as she has not seen the written notice, she has tried telling me that a she is not going to accept my notice as valid as it had to be written, and therefore she expects me to give her a new notice for the following month, and pay another months rent (even though i'm moving out on 08/09/18 when my notice said I was. After emailing her telling her I have provided written notice in the address given, she said she believes I am lying and will only accept a new notice while paying for another month.

    The landlady, the whole tenancy, has tried to get more and more money off me while in the meantime not fixing any problems. I am not going to pay another months rent seen as i have given notice, although I know she is going to claim I never posted anything in the letterbox. I could not get proof of giving it to her seen as she has not given me her personal address, and she was out of the country when I needed it to be given, so i had no option than to post it through the box.

    Do i stand any ground? I know she is going to keep my deposit and attempt to say she can keep it as I havent given notice. Neither me or her have any proof it has or hasent been given.

    Also, I have noticed she never provided a certicicate/reciept to show the tenancy deposit had been protected. I know it has as i have recently checked online, but is this illegal not to provide this? I emailed her regarding this and she has lied saying she put it in my letterbox soon after moving in, which she has not, and if she had she would have got me to sign it as she did with everything else.

    Just want to know what will happen as I believe it is going to have to be a court matter?


    #2
    Those dates are confusing me..... A 1 year fixed term from "09/10/17" (9 October 2017?) does not end on "08/09/18" (8 September 2018?). You are "moving out as of the end of [your] fixed term", but you gave notice on the same date?

    even though i'm moving out on 08/09/18
    Moving out as in present tense? Future tense? 08/09/18 was several days ago....
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

    Comment


      #3
      I think "08/09/18" in original post for moving-out date should be "08/10/18"; it then makes sense.

      Originally posted by Romie19 View Post
      I am currently renting a property as of 09/10/17 and have a 1 year fixed term ending 08/09/18. I am moving out as of the end of my fixed term, and gave notice to my landlord on 08/09/18 through a hand posted written notice.
      Romie19: please would you post the words from your tenancy agreement that define the "term" of the tenancy?
      It is likely that you do not have to give notice to leave on 08/10/18, but we need to see those words to be sure.


      Originally posted by Romie19 View Post
      I could not get proof of giving it to her seen as she has not given me her personal address, and she was out of the country when I needed it to be given, so i had no option than to post it through the box.
      If you have provided notice to the address that your LL provided, then you have done what is required by law.

      BUT does she live in the same building?

      Originally posted by Romie19 View Post
      Also, I have noticed she never provided a certicicate/reciept to show the tenancy deposit had been protected.
      There may not be a requirement to provide this, depending on the scheme used. Which scheme is it?

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry that should have said ending 08/10/18. This is the date I have on the notice that I would be moving out by. It was 08/09/18 that I gave my notice.

        My landlady does not live at this address no, although this is the address I have for her on my tenancy agreement. She hasn’t provided her personal address, but was told that she picks up her post from her post box downstairs which is why it says to address the notice to there.

        The deposit scheme used is the TDS

        Comment


          #5
          You didn't give a response to:

          Romie19: please would you post the words from your tenancy agreement that define the "term" of the tenancy?
          If the tenancy was of a fixed term only, then you do not need to give notice to leave by the last day of the tenancy, but we can't say because you didn't answer the question.

          If you have a assured shorthold tenancy, then yes, the landlord needed to have given you certain information within 30 days of the deposit being paid. If the landlord didn't do that, you are entitled to sue her for a penalty, the penalty being a monetary amount of between 1x and 3x the amount of the deposit. Since the deposit was actually protected, the court are likely to make an order towards the lower end of the range. And since it is protected, you can use the scheme's dispute resolution service to challenge any proposed deductions you don't agree with.
          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

          Comment


            #6
            OP Please complete & paste 66253-important-information-required-from-all-new-posters

            Comment


              #7
              I have checked the tenancy agreement and it does not mention fixed term, it is an assured shorthold tenancy and does say clearly on it that it is for an initial period of 1 year, and 1 calendar months notice is required. Although as I said I have given this, but she is now accusing me of lying in order to get another months rent from me.

              Comment


                #8
                Could you please let us have the exact wording of the term of the agreement.
                There is a big difference between a term that is for 12 months starting on such an such a date and a term this is for an initial 12 months than that then continues monthly (or similar).

                If the term is for 12 months, it ends when it ends and no notice is required.
                If it continues, you may have an issue with the notice. Although you have served it correctly as far as I can see.

                The landlord can only deduct money from your deposit with your consent (it's your money), but they can make things frustrating and slow.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is the exact wording from my tenancy agreement:

                  ’you will have the property and the furniture for 12 months starting on 9th October 2017 to 8th October 2018. If, at the end of this time, we have not received from you at least one calendar months notice, in writing, expiring on the last day of the fixed term of the tenancy to terminate the agreement, the tenancy will continue on a contractual periodic tenancy. The periods of this contractual tenancy shall be the same as those for which rent was last payable under the initial fixed term of the tenancy. This periodic tenancy will carry on until you have served the required notice in writing to terminate the agreement or we serve notice to re possess’

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If they really have created a contractual periodic tenancy then your notice is as required by the contract. But case law suggests it is actually very difficult to create a CPT.

                    BUT you don't have to give notice if you leave at the end of the 12 months. Just make sure you don't overstay by a second.

                    For reference: http://www.landlordlegalsolutions.co...ive-a-landlord

                    Does anyone have case law to back this up, as I've found another solicitor who thinks that the TA can require notice within the fixed term https://www.burywalkers.com/tenants-...gth-of-notice/

                    Also, your landlord must give you their correct address https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi..._your_landlord

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you.

                      Assuming that the wording creates a contractual periodic tenancy, which I think that is does, you can't simply leave at the end of the fixed term, because there is no fixed term in this agreement.

                      So you have to give notice.

                      Notice has to be served (which you have done by posting it). It doesn't have to be received or accepted (provided it's valid - and the landlord isn't saying it's not valid, just that they didn't receive it).
                      The landlord is simply being stupid - otherwise any landlord could simply claim not to have seen a notice forever. You even text them to confirm what you had done.

                      So leave when you have said you will and don't pay any rent beyond the 12 months. The landlord can try and claim from your deposit, but you can dispute that claim (there will be delay and stress - but you'll prevail in the end.

                      There's some dispute about whether a text message constitutes "in writing", but that's a separate discussion and not really relevant.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by davett View Post
                        If they really have created a contractual periodic tenancy then your notice is as required by the contract. But case law suggests it is actually very difficult to create a CPT.

                        BUT you don't have to give notice if you leave at the end of the 12 months. Just make sure you don't overstay by a second.
                        It's not hard to create a contractual periodic tenancy, it's just not very common. The intention to create one is clearly there, which is one place that can often cause a problem.

                        The protection company dispute resolution service isn't going to be much use here, I suspect, as they'll decide it's beyond their scope.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just ignore her. You gave notice to the address given. Move out by when you said you were going to. Take lots of photo to document the condition of the property. If she refuses to accept the keys, just post it through the postbox like you did with the notice.
                          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                          I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            Assuming that the wording creates a contractual periodic tenancy, which I think that is does, you can't simply leave at the end of the fixed term, because there is no fixed term in this agreement.
                            But the clause a posted by the op clearly states-
                            ....expiring on the last day of the fixed term of the tenancy to terminate the agreement, the tenancy will continue on a contractual periodic tenancy.
                            However the issue here is that it also states that it becomes a CPT after the fixed term - unless the tenant gives one months clear notice before the end of the fixed term.
                            It's debatable if this would hold up in court, especially the notice needed to end the fixed term, but it might do.

                            https://lettingtrainingcentre.co.uk/...iodic-tenancy/
                            To sum up, it would appear that a periodic tenancy is a statutory periodic if there is no mention of any changed terms within the body of the contract and the fixed term comes to an end with the tenant remaining in situ. It will be a “contractual periodic tenancy” if the fixed term says it will become one and there is an agreed alteration of terms. The question arises, particularly with the issue of a tenant giving notice, whether a 2 month notice period would be upheld in a court. It would seem sensible, reasonable and logical that statute law should overrule contract law and that it is “unfair” for a tenant to sign away his rights. Against that point is the famous contract law quote: “The law will not unmake a bad bargain” so that if the tenant agrees to the term then it is binding.

                            Clearly, this debate will continue with arguments on both sides until there is a decision in the Court of Appeal or Supreme Court.
                            Personally I'd leave a day before the end of the fixed term and let them try to take action.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              The protection company dispute resolution service isn't going to be much use here, I suspect, as they'll decide it's beyond their scope.
                              I agree.

                              The landlord, when submitting evidence, will quote the clause in the agreement and claim for an additional months' rent.

                              You'll need to point the adjudicator in the right direction of credible sources which back up the claim that you can simply leave without notice, despite what the contract says.

                              Even then, I wouldn't be confident that the adjudicator wouldn't just go with what the tenancy states (they aren't judges).

                              Comment

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