End of Tenancy - £1800 bill.. please provide advice?

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    #16
    Replace a single tile - I have followed a similar guide and done it myself on both a floor and 2 wall tiles. Worked perfectly replacement is good. I am a DIY'er and have only ever tiled once before (redoing a bathroom that was an empty shell)...

    Having made claims via DPS arbitration recently he is 100% wrong on the carpet situation. Thats not how it works.

    Bathroom lights, did you ever touch them? If no - then its not your cost... And even if you did replace a bulb, I am sure it was like for like, as such the fitting is still the landlords cost. You dont pay for improvements/bringing the place you rented up to spec.

    Its not on you to find professionals to do it, unless you want to.. The problem isnt who is doing the work/the estimates, its his method of calculation and expectations of how it works. Point him to these forums for some guidance



    Couple of questions in light of his trying to hold cash to ransom (he doesnt know what he is doing!) :-
    *1 Was the deposit correctly protected within 30 days of LL receiving it, and were the right documents served to you regarding it?
    *2 Did you see/sign a move in inventory?

    Comment


      #17
      Just go to arbitration.
      The landlord doesn't understand what they're doing.

      You could probably suggest that you proceed to arbitration now, as the claims are not related to the cost of "making good", they're related to a loss beyond fair wear and tear, which will be based on the original cost of the items in question adjusted for fair wear and tear.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #18
        So it has finally gone to arbitration.
        Email received from deposit scheme implies I must provide evidence of everything otherwise LL will take full deposit?

        I have digital checkout and tenancy agreements, but only a printed check in, do I send these as is? TBH I was under the impression it is the LL job to provide all the evidence.

        In order to decide how the money should be distributed between you and your landlord or letting agent, the adjudicator assessing your case will need to review the evidence relating to the claim. Please send us your evidence by email to disputes@depositprotection.com or by post to The DPS, The Pavilions, Bridgwater Road, Bristol, BS99 6AA.

        We must either receive evidence or written confirmation that you have no evidence to submit by 14/09/2018. If we do not receive this information, the disputed amount will automatically be paid to the landlord or letting agent in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.

        You can find out more about dispute resolution here.

        To help prepare for your submission, here are some examples of the type of evidence you should consider providing, including a full, signed and legally compliant tenancy agreement:

        Check-in inventory and schedule of condition
        Check-out inventory and schedule of condition
        Vacating instructions
        A copy of agents Terms of Business (if applicable)
        Estimates, invoices and/ or receipts
        Statement of rent accounts
        Correspondence regarding the dispute
        Photographs, video or any other visual evidence
        Housing Benefit correspondence and documentation
        Any other evidence you would like the adjudicator to consider

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by 120 View Post
          So it has finally gone to arbitration.
          Email received from deposit scheme implies I must provide evidence of everything otherwise LL will take full deposit?

          I have digital checkout and tenancy agreements, but only a printed check in, do I send these as is? TBH I was under the impression it is the LL job to provide all the evidence.
          [/SIZE]
          I think you've misread this;

          We must either receive evidence or written confirmation that you have no evidence to submit by 14/09/2018. If we do not receive this information, the disputed amount will automatically be paid to the landlord or letting agent in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.

          Seems to me they are saying submit any evidence you have ( as it will help to judge the claim). Or give written confirmation you don't have any evidence.
          Only if you do neither of those things will the LL automatically get the deposit. AIUI

          Comment


            #20
            I'd simply respond to the claims the landlord is making and point out your query with each item, based on the response in the thread (and your obvious reservations in your first post). Your overarching argument is that pretty much all of the issues are within what would be expected with five years fair wear and tear and that the landlord is not justifying or calculating the loss beyond fair wear and tear as they should.

            If you feel that £x would be a reasonable deduction that you would agree to, say that.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #21
              Good point, that makes sense.

              Quick question: I think it best I submit the check in, check out and tenancy agreement - just to enforce no chance LL submits falsified documents.

              Our check in is printed only, I am asking the agency if they have a digital version, if in the event they don't, would me scanning all the pages and compiling into a pdf doc still be valid proof?

              Comment


                #22
                You should submit as many of the documents they are requesting as possible, and if you have photos of the damage you caused submit that as well

                Submit all the emails you've received of him asking for full repairs and replacement

                Also submit your statement on what the damage was and what you are prepared to do about it

                I would imagine this LL would not replace the whole carpet if it is just a small mark, and would just note it on the next tenancy agreement. I think after 5 years I would be repainting anyway so wouldn't expect any money for doing that

                If the tile has a scratch, does it even need to be replaced in a rental property, if it is smashed fair enough but again that's just one tile then he cannot expect a new floor

                Bulbs are bulbs, if the lights worked when you walked in and work when you walk out, then so be it, if he wants better ones then that's his call

                He no chance proving you damaged the door, if its warped through countless summers/winters has he been noting that on his periodic inspections, has he asked you to do anything about it prior to now?

                Would be really interesting to see how much they actually award him from your deposit, but there's no way it'll be close to that. And if he doesn't have proof of what the carpet cost him he's going to struggle justifying the amounts he's talking about

                Just remember in your response to strip the emotion out of it and not rant, just be clear on the facts and admit to what you want to admit to, they will do the rest

                Comment


                  #23
                  The claimed amounts, descriptions the LL used when claiming using DPS were different to those in the original email I put in the OP; for example he took out the warped door price/damage.
                  Can he add those back in for the dispute and should I provide notes in the statement for all the original things, or just those claimed upon through DPS?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I reckon LLZ members are getting carried away with this life expectancy lark.
                    It is only guidance, and it is only TDS guidance. It needs to be applied with what is reasonable.
                    Using the example here;

                    - Regarding carpets, this may be betterment? So we wont be paying the full amount but a % based on estimated life (usually 5-10 years for carpets) - actual life (~5 years).
                    I am only going by what I have been advised by a lawyer and the Inventory company - who state that when you are forced to replace the carpet (rather than leave it for an additional 5-7 yrs) Then you can claim the full amount - talk to the inventory company
                    If the carpet was 11 years old and in perfect condition prior to the tenancy and the tenant left a deep iron burn bang in the centre of a white carpeted lounge, what claim would it be reasonable for the landlord to make?

                    According to life expectancy calculations- zero.
                    Or to take it to the preposterous, the landlord owes the tenant one years carpet life expectancy.

                    To emphasise the point using windows as an example;
                    Life expectancy of windows? Say 30 years?
                    Does that mean a tenant with 30 year old windows can smash them all in without penalty?

                    The lawyer and inventory company might partially have a point regarding being 'forced' to replace the carpet.

                    (I'm not saying this is or isn't the case here)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by boletus View Post
                      I reckon LLZ members are getting carried away with this life expectancy lark.
                      It is only guidance, and it is only TDS guidance. It needs to be applied with what is reasonable.
                      .
                      It’s not from the TDS (although they might use it), it’s a standard mechanism in contract law to calculate loss. It’s been applied to pretty much every kind of asset over decades of cases.

                      Because the loss has to be fully mitigated, the calculation can’t leave the claimant better off than they were before.
                      If the carpet was 11 years old and in perfect condition prior to the tenancy and the tenant left a deep iron burn bang in the centre of a white carpeted lounge, what claim would it be reasonable for the landlord to make?

                      According to life expectancy calculations- zero.
                      Or to take it to the preposterous, the landlord owes the tenant one years carpet life expectancy.
                      Essentially, yes. The landlord could claim that the carpet was in excellent condition, and consequently the life expectancy would be more than 10 years, but the basis of the calculation would be the same.

                      The new carpet doesn’t have zero value to the landlord, it’s going to be there for another decade’s use.

                      To emphasise the point using windows as an example;
                      Life expectancy of windows? Say 30 years?
                      Does that mean a tenant with 30 year old windows can smash them all in without penalty?
                      Windows (and doors) are actually quite complex, because the type of calculation for the carpet probably isn’t applicable. In the first place, window life expectancy is much more debatable and the purchase cost isn’t usually available, unless they are replacement windows. The loss when a window is broken is arguably to the entire property, not just the glass pane, so the repair cost is usually appropriate. A window is just a window (provided the landlord doesn’t try and slip in a gold plated triple glazed prescription window), so the possibility of betterment doesn’t arise.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        OK, thought I'd reply now the process finally finished!.. Huge delays at DPS.

                        So the LL claim was for £1143.50 ( damage £733.50 | redecoration £410 )
                        I agreed to £85 before adjudication ( damage £35 | redecoration £50 ).

                        DPS decision £68 ( damage £15 | redecoration £53 )

                        So I feel good about this, only paying an additional £68 instead of the LL requested £1143.50 (minus my agreed £85) and so will be getting a large amount of the deposit back.
                        Now I just have to hope the LL is just happy to move on from this, after 2 or more months waiting.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Good, well done for persevering.
                          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Congratulations.

                            Next, move on to checking whether your deposit was protected correctly. A landloed like this is most likely to have buggered it up!

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