Deposit that's not a tenancy deposit

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Deposit that's not a tenancy deposit

    Can anyone help with this query that's come up today.

    Tenants are in mid-tenancy, all is well. Deposit was protected as required etc. All good so far.

    One of the tenants has lost their key fob for the communal door. The managing agent requires £10 for a new fob and £90 as a deposit for it. Deposit returnable on return of the fob. But they need the payment from the leaseholder (i.e. me), they can't accept anything from the tenant. Fair enough, to expedite things, I paid the managing agent and tenant has paid me. New fob issued, tenant is happy.

    What to do with the money? At end of tenancy, tenant needs to return the fob supplied at start of the tenancy. The one they had is lost, so they will supply this replacement. But they know it cost £10. However it has cost me £100.

    So can I validly charge them £100.

    Tenant knows £90 is deposit that the managing agent holds. And they have paid this to me. I don't want to get into problems with deposits and protecting it... Can this be seen in any way as a tenancy related deposit?

    Am I over complicating this?

    #2
    I don't think you're over complicating things with the way deposits have gone and are right to be paranoid. Do you have paperwork from the supplier and something signed from the tenant creating an audit trail?
    "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

    What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

    Comment


      #3
      “tenancy deposit”, in relation to a shorthold tenancy, means any money intended to be held (by the landlord or otherwise) as security for—
      (a) the performance of any obligations of the tenant, or
      (b) the discharge of any liability of his,
      arising under or in connection with the tenancy.
      So... possibly? I think it would had been better if you had nothing to do with it, and had let the building management sort it out between themselves and the tenant.
      I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

      Comment


        #4
        KTC - would have preferred that to be the case. However the managing agent, understandably, can only give keys to the building to leaseholders.

        Wanna - there is an email audit trail of what went on. It's clear what the money is for.

        I'm inclined to issue a receipt to the tenant for the full £100 as payment for a new fob. So thereby not referring to it as a deposit. If they accept, the problem goes away. If they don't, then yes, I'm paranoid!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by KTC View Post

          So... possibly? I think it would had been better if you had nothing to do with it, and had let the building management sort it out between themselves and the tenant.
          The building manager has no legal relationship with the tenant, and if this is the sort of arrangement that landlords, with no registration of sub-lets, may not even know who the tenant is.

          Comment


            #6
            Get a detailed Invoice from MA for 100 pounds. Fob is returnable to LL at end of T as replacement for lost fob.
            I would just charge T 100 pounds for replacement of nec electronic key.
            100 GBP is NOT a deposit.IMO.

            Comment


              #7
              We're operating at the limits of paranoia now.

              The £90 is a deposit. If the tenant doesn't return the fob it's going to be kept by the landlord as compensation, so it's money held against a possible future liability.
              It's in relation to a shorthold tenancy, so it should be protected.

              If you treat it as a purchase of £100, you can't "decide" to give it back later.
              You could (possibly) agree to buy the fob back for £90 at the end of the tenancy, I guess - but that doesn't stop if it being a deposit (my view only).

              Whether or not any of this matters, or if a court would see it that way is something completely different, of course.
              I'd suspect nothing would come of the issue either way.

              One issue would be how you account for the cost for tax purposes...
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                I think you charge the tenant £10 now and if they lose the fob you claim the £90 from the regular deposit at the end of the tenancy or you sue them for it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't understand why you have to pay £10 for the fob PLUS a deposit, doesn't make sense. You can hardly return the fob to get your £90 back when you need to give it to your next tenant. If you charge the tenant £100 for the fob then it belongs to them, in fact if you charge them £10 it belongs to them. It's mental!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It's not really a deposit, it's just a way to make the ridiculous charge sound more palatable. (i.e., they typically cost <£2 and take <2 minutes to program).
                    When would you be able to get the deposit back - when they demolish the building?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Is this a case of:
                      1. Original fob issued to you at a cost of £10 + £90 deposit
                      2. original fob given to tenant and lost
                      3. new fob issued at a cost of £10 + £90 deposit and given to tenant as replacement?
                      If so, then it is compensation for the loss of the original and is putting you back in the position you would have been in had the fob not been lost.

                      It seems to me that the £10 is an admin charge for the work in replacing the fob, and the cost of the fob (to you) is £90.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I agree with MdeB. The cost to the tenant is £100 because they lost the first fob so the deposit was lost too.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I believe that you're over-thinking this.

                          There are 2 seperate transactions here.

                          You pay the agent £100 for the fob. (£10 + £90 deposit).
                          You get £90 returned from the agent if/when you give it back. (Which you won't because your next tenant will need it).
                          The fob is now yours.

                          Your tenant pays you an amount for the loss of the previous fob.
                          I'd say £100 because if he loses it again it will cost you that much for another.

                          The tenant has not paid any deposit, he's paid a £100 charge for a replacement fob.

                          If he loses it again he pays another £100 for another replacement, which might make him more careful.
                          (If he takes it with him when he leaves charge another £100).

                          Of course the agent supplying you with fobs is making a large profit each time, but that's a different issue.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            None of this makes any sense.

                            Freeholder issues keys to lessees. Lessees pass them on to tenants.
                            Freeholder has nothing directly to do with tenants of lessees. Nor should they require any return of keys/fobs - tenant returns communal keys to landlord.

                            Unless it says otherwise in the lease.

                            Comment

                            Latest Activity

                            Collapse

                            • licensee vs tenant
                              imjustbait
                              i have been given 14 days notice -

                              i asked my friend for help and to sort things out if possible, as he works in lettings etc -

                              he said to be this is a licensee contract not an (AST) one - (i didnt know)


                              basically, i want to know what rights i have to...
                              07-02-2019, 21:58 PM
                            • Reply to licensee vs tenant
                              imjustbait
                              It also appears they may not be registered with MARLA/ARLA as well....

                              My friend also informed me that the place I live (not to my knowledge before I moved in here) Is a council block/social housing. He informed me that if the landlord who has a mortgage on this property hasnt actually...
                              19-02-2019, 12:17 PM
                            • What happens to the deposit when a landlord dies?
                              Tencretax2
                              Hi everyone, I’m wondering if you could help me, as I’m very unsure of where I stand legally in respect of a housing situation I exited recently.

                              I was a Monday to Friday lodger until a few months ago, when I needed to vacate the room and move to a different property. I signed a contract...
                              18-02-2019, 21:18 PM
                            • Reply to What happens to the deposit when a landlord dies?
                              jpkeates
                              Whatever the practical obstacles, whoever is responsible for the estate needs to sort it out.
                              If the lodger sues the estate for the deposit, a court would award costs against them as well as ordering the return of the money.

                              Unless the lodger at least makes asserts their claim, the...
                              19-02-2019, 11:04 AM
                            • Reply to What happens to the deposit when a landlord dies?
                              Lawcruncher
                              Quite. The problem is that money is fungible. You cannot identify where the deposit is....
                              19-02-2019, 10:55 AM
                            • Debt Collection
                              Sweepiecat
                              Can anybody help please. I own a flat that is fully managed by a letting agency I’ve dealt with for 12 years. I received a letter from a debt collection agency asking me to ring them. I phoned them today and have found out there is an outstanding bill (which has been sold to the debt collection agency)...
                              18-02-2019, 22:53 PM
                            • Reply to Debt Collection
                              theartfullodger
                              Pay it today "under protest" to avoid further fees, then slowly sort the mess out.
                              19-02-2019, 10:53 AM
                            • Question about damage
                              Nearlytheone
                              Good morning, I'm new here so, firstly want to take the opportunity to say hello.
                              I'm living outside of the UK at the moment and my property in the UK is being rented out. I had an excellent Tennant who has now moved out. He has openly admitted damaging the lounge carpet. I have had a quote to...
                              19-02-2019, 10:07 AM
                            • Reply to Question about damage
                              jpkeates
                              A landlord is entitled to compensation for any loss in value of their asset(s) beyond fair wear and tear that occurred during the lease.

                              The formula that they should use, and a court (and the protecting company ADR process) will use is:
                              (Cost of the original item and any installation/fitting...
                              19-02-2019, 10:41 AM
                            • Reply to Question about damage
                              zanorias
                              Welcome.
                              What specifically are we talking about in terms of damage? As far as I'm aware, you can't deduct from deposit for fair wear and tear; if the tenant has looked after it as well as reasonably possible and been there a few years and it's slightly worn or light sofa indentation I wouldn't...
                              19-02-2019, 10:28 AM
                            Working...
                            X