Tenancy break up

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    Tenancy break up

    Hi hope someone can help with this situation.

    Tenants have been with me for over a year and signed joint tenancy. Now on a periodic tenancy the lead tenant has given me 1 months notice to vacate the property due to relationship break down. The other person wishes to stay in the property and has now moved their son in to the property without my consent, the son is apparently claiming benefits. As far as i am aware the other person is only working part time so may be looking to claim HB down the line to afford the rent. There is no arrears at the moment but once lead tenant moves out i feel could get messy.

    I am unsure how to proceed here?

    Any advice much appreciated.

    #2
    If there is a joint tenancy, the notice by the exiting tenant's notice ends the tenancy (when it expires and assuming it was valid).
    That ends the tenancy for both of them and the other person will have to leave when the notice expires.

    If they don't leave, they will theoretically be liable for paying double the rent (as they are holding over) and any legal costs associating with evicting them.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Assuming statutory periodic and not contractual periodic with terms otherwise. If the tenant's notice was a valid notice to quit (in writing, at least one month if paying monthly, ending on the first or last day of a period of tenancy), then the tenancy would end on the notice expiry.

      If the other tenant don't leave, then you have the option of going to court for possession on the basis that they are holding over / trespassing, or grant them a new tenancy. If you choose the holding over, we want possession route, then you are entitled to apply to court against occupier for mesne profits for the use and occupation at twice the daily rate to the amount the previous rent. If you make it clear that in advance, it may help them move on.
      I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

      I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for replies

        So just to clarify, i would not need to issue a sec 21 here to anyone as the lead tenant has given me 1 months notice by email. And if this indeed ends the tenancy for the other joint tenant then that person is obliged to move out at this date if i refuse to issue a new tenancy?

        If the other person decides not to leave or cannot find anywhere else in the short timeframe how easy is it to gain posession from here on?

        Comment


          #5
          The tenant's notice has to be valid and one month's notice doesn't sound right.
          It's a minimum of a month ending on the date of the end of a rental period.

          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Any one of the joint tenant can give a notice to quit to end the whole tenancy for everyone during a statutory periodic tenancy.

            Whether the notice you received is valid depends on the terms of your tenancy. CHECK what it says about how notice may be served (is email okay, or does it have to be by post or in person?), when it is deemed served etc.

            The notice would need to be at least one month long, and it would need to end on the last day or the first day of a period of the tenancy (usually in line with when rent is due but not always). Just giving exactly one month notice is not enough if it doesn't end on the right day.

            Standard non-accelerated possession claim process, so a few months from start to eviction, but the occupier would also be liable to mesne profits in the mean time at double the rent, so the idea is use that fact to encourage them to rethink their decision to stay. And if there's no tenancy, I'm not sure if they can claim housing benefit in the mean time either.
            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

            Comment


              #7
              The remaining occupants mustn't be allowed to pay any rent after the notice expires.
              Otherwise, a new tenancy might arise.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                Double rent is due to Section 19 Distress for Rent Act 1737. I believe that a court has to award this for it to be due.

                As stated above, accept payment as mesne profits, not rent (otherwise you will probably create a new tenancy). Write to tenant stating that any payments received after the end of the tenancy will be accepted as mesne profit and not as rent.
                I have a recollection, but I cannot point to any supporting evidence, that mesne profits cn only be claimed in arrears (but I am sure others here can clarify).

                As stated above, to be valid notice, in addition to giving at leas one months clear notice, it must give a date of the last or first day of a tenancy period; if it does not do that, then the tenancy does not end.

                Personally, I do not accept notice by email. I require a piece of paper that has the tenant's signature. To facilitate this, I provide my tenants with a prepared letter giving the correct day of the month so that they only need add the month and year, date of notice, and signature.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have told the tenant i need an actual date to end tenancy on the last day of the rental month. They will confirm this later.
                  My main concern here now is the other tenant that will be obliged to move out, obviously they will not want to and i know they want to stay on but i am fearful of the financial situation. Also another adult claiming benefits has moved into the property without my consent so even if i was to issue the existing tenant a new agreement what would happen with this person? can i just add them as a permitted occupier? Or should i be just trying to get them all out, which could take time and expense especially if they stop paying rent.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Negotiate. Do you want tenants on HB? Is the partner left at the property able to pay the rent? If it were me I would go for a clean sweep and start again with 2 working tenants - the best conbination on getting rent paid.



                    Freedom at the point of zero............

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ideally no i do not want tenants on benefits but the tenant does actually work but may also look to claim to help out. To be fair they have not been bad tenants but have just had relationship break down. in a way i agree about a clean sweep but if i force them out they may dig their heels in and sit put and possibly just stop paying the rent ( worse case scenario) hopefully it wont come to this but if i can allow them to stay and work something out this may be a better option. Will see how the land lies this week.
                      What about the son on benefits i assume this is jobseekers, do i need to name this person on agreement at all?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just tell them they will all have to leave once she serves notice and explain the consequences if trespass if they dont leave. Once she has served the notice it cant be revoked so its out of your hands anyway

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yes but there is nothing to stop me issuing the other tenant a new tenancy? It may not be an ideal situation but i am starting to think of my options - best case scenario is rent from day 1. worst case scenario they refuse to leave and it takes me months to evict, then refurbish property, then re let. Add the cost up of this and possibly trying to negotiate a new tenancy even if not ideal may be a better option?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Do not accept rent or promise anyone a new T to/from anyone before expiry of valid NTQ. Explain to the anyone wishing to remain they can apply for a new fixed term T from <this date> on <terms>, subject to satisfactory personal credit refs, but final decision is LLs
                            or just subs seek new Ts.

                            Comment

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