Tenant paying rent erratically after section 21 notice. Best course of action?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Flipjango View Post
    to make it clear to them that they will get a CCJ and this will mean they can't get credit cards or loans or mortgages, and will find it difficult to get any rented property in future. But I'm not sure whether this is a good idea or not? Could it be construed as harassment? Would I be better to just let them find out the hard way?
    With respect, it is NOT a foregone conclusion that you will win, therefore yes such contact could well be harassment.

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      #17
      By now for the cost of s couple of quid you could have served at least 2 s8s. Might prompt tenant to pay. Worry them that you understand law a bit. Might apply court after 14 days


      Should
      council find out about s8...
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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        #18
        I'd be surprised if they'd e looking for the council to rehouse them. I think they've got plenty of cash so would have thought the council would laugh in their face to be honest.

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          #19
          If I issue a section 8, on grounds 10 and 11, and then they pay, what happens next? And come the expiry of the notice, do I then use the section 8 or the section 21?

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            #20
            If they pay you are happier: Surely you knew?

            HOW (with which notice) and with WHICH SORT of notice were you proposing to execute the break clause? Depending on
            a) if it is enforceable - many break clauses aren't.. &
            b) the wording of break clause ...
            - the execution of the break clause might make no difference (a) or merely the end fixed term, new valid periodic following on so you'd need a new fresh s21 to start court eviction.

            s8's expire after 14 days (usually for arrears) but are more easily defended by tenants than s21.
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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              #21
              As above, I am not sure whether a plain s21 would be enough to both execute the break clause and give notice

              Comment


                #22
                If the break clause is not overly complicated such as demanding of specific reference to the break clause itself when exercising, then a section 21 notice should be fine based on Fawaz v Aylward.
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I certainly don't think its overly complicated KTC - thanks for the input, i've pasted it below and would welcome your advice:

                  "Mutual Break Clause
                  11.5. Any time after four months of the initial fixed Term of this tenancy (or after a similar period following a
                  fixed Term extension to the original tenancy) either party may invoke this break clause by providing a minimum
                  of two months written notice to the other (such notice to expire on the last day of a rental period of the tenancy).
                  At the end of such notice the tenancy shall end and all obligations and responsibilities shall cease; subject
                  nevertheless to any claim by either party against the other in respect of any breach of any of the terms and
                  conditions of the agreement."

                  Artfullodger, I'm so sorry but I'm not sure I understand the first two paragraphs of your last message. Sorry if I'm being thick!

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                    #24
                    The only other relevant clause from the contract is this I think:

                    "12.2 Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation
                    then the same may be served properly addressed to the Tenant either at the Premises or by sending the same
                    by either recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises or at the Tenant’s last known
                    address and the same shall be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant 24 hours after
                    posting the same."

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Double post since apparently just editing an existing post without even any link is enough to get moderated for spam....

                      Originally posted by Flipjango View Post
                      After a lot of stress and hassle, we decided to serve them with a section 21 notice, to expire 6 days after the end of the 6 month period.
                      Originally posted by Flipjango View Post
                      "Mutual Break Clause
                      11.5. Any time after four months of the initial fixed Term of this tenancy (or after a similar period following a fixed Term extension to the original tenancy) either party may invoke this break clause by providing a minimum of two months written notice to the other (such notice to expire on the last day of a rental period of the tenancy).
                      You did not serve a valid break notice. As such, your section 21 notice would also be invalid since it would expire before the last day of the fixed term tenancy.
                      I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Flipjango View Post
                        ...Artfullodger, I'm so sorry but I'm not sure I understand the first two paragraphs of your last message. Sorry if I'm being thick!
                        I take it you are referring to..firstly
                        HOW (with which notice) and with WHICH SORT of notice were you proposing to execute the break clause? Depending on
                        a) if it is enforceable - many break clauses aren't.. &
                        b) the wording of break clause ...
                        - the execution of the break clause might make no difference (a) or merely the end fixed term, new valid periodic following on so you'd need a new fresh s21 to start court eviction.
                        ... I am simply asking, regarding your wanting to use a break clause, by what mechanism (eg
                        a) nice letter, or
                        b) a notice using wording from tenancy agreement...or
                        c) an email saying please go or...
                        d) an s21 to execute (you hope..) the break clause
                        - please?

                        i.e. Could you please tell us how you are going to invoke/execute the break clause.


                        - and secondly
                        .....s8's expire after 14 days (usually for arrears) but are more easily defended by tenants than s21.
                        An s21 cannot (may not..) expire before at least two months. S8s expire for rent arrears grounds after 14 days (so quicker then s21, you can then start next stage in eviction by applying to court). But whereas for s21 when if paperwork is correct there is no defence, s8 rent arrears may be defended or delayed or thrown out more easily by tenant.

                        If I'm still unclear I fear there is no hope for me...






                        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                        Comment


                          #27
                          KTC, why is my section 21 invalid? We issued it asking for possession after the 4 month period had passed, giving more than 2 months notice, as set out in the tenancy agreement. It expires after the initial 6 month fixed rental period. I'd be grateful if you could explain further?

                          Artfulloger, we are using the section 21 form 6A to issue the notice. This was the legal advice we were given. We are already more than a month into the notice period so we can apply to the court in 3 weeks time. It was because of the defensibility that we went the section 21 route rather than using section 8.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            You have a 12 months fixed term tenancy with a break clause that can be exercised any time after 4 months have passed. The clause clearly state that a notice to break must expire "on the last day of a rental period of the tenancy". You then also said you served a section 21 notice, doubling it up as a break notice, with the notice expiring "6 days after the end of the 6 month period".

                            Since your s21 does not fulfil the requirement of your break clause, it's not valid as a break notice. Without a valid break notice, your fixed term don't expire for nearly 6 months after the expiry date of the s21, in turn making the s21 itself invalid.
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Ah, I see. So what's the best course? Issue a new section 21 and also write them a letter asking for posession, ending at the end of a rental period?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by wfd_property View Post

                                With respect, it is NOT a foregone conclusion that you will win, therefore yes such contact could well be harassment.
                                The OP might well have a flawed case (for the moment) due to a problematical S21. But I cannot see how warning someone you intend to sue of the potential consequences for them of such suing can be construed as harassment.

                                Certainly absurd lawsuits filed for harassment purposes are possible. Suing for outstanding rent (that is outstanding) does not fall into this category.

                                Comment

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