Wording on the s21 - "you are required to leave the property AFTER..."...?

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    Wording on the s21 - "you are required to leave the property AFTER..."...?

    I'm about to issue my first s21 - Form 6A.

    There is no issue with regards to it being valid; prescribed info EPC/Gas Cert etc etc all above board and the tenants know it's coming - we've been in constant dialogue since November - The house needs renovating and I plan to start it in May).

    I just want to make sure I'm filling it in correctly as there is a sentence that I can't quite get my head around and that is section 2 "You are required to leave the below address after [DATE]"

    I don't understand why it says "after"...? Surely it should say "You are required to leave the below address BY....[DATE]"......?

    What date do I put in there?

    The fixed term of the AST will end on 24 Feb 2018, but I don't need them to leave until April (I'm giving them plenty of notice, it's not a surprise to them).

    They need to leave BY 24 April. They know this; the s21 just confirms it.

    So why does it say after....?

    #2
    It says "after" because section 21(4) of the Housing Act 1988 requires it to be so. (Form 6A is for notice under both s21(1) and s21(4).)

    You are effectively giving notice to your tenant that after the date specified, you may issue a claim in county court for the possession of the property if they are still in occupation.

    They don't have to leave BY 24 April. The s21 notice itself does not terminate the tenancy. It will either terminate by them leaving in accordance with your expressed wishes and you accepting the surrender, or they stay and you go to court for possession and then executing the order through bailiffs which will take a few months. (41 weeks England & Wales wide average for all possession claims, unopposed accelerated possession will be lower than that but still months.)

    You need to give at least 2 months notice. That's 2 months from when the notice is deemed served, so 2 months and a few days in practice. Check the tenancy agreement on exactly how service is to be effected.
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    Comment


      #3
      It's what that bunch of clowns in Parliament decided should be the wording. It is a prescribed form, you cannot (may not, legally not permitted to) change it.

      Since any s21, even if valid, does not end a tenancy nor require them to leave, then the date given doesn't make a lot of difference (typical timescales to evict if tenant digs heels in in 40+ weeks..). I'd bung in, say, 17th April (at least 2 months..) - if you are lucky they will go, if not court.

      Checked it with ??
      https://markprichard.co.uk/content/d...ecker-tool.pdf

      Alternatively agree a surrender deed with them..
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        It's just legal wording. The date is usually the date at the end if the statuatory notice period. You can't evict before that date. After that date you can then take further court action to evict.if needed.

        Comment


          #5
          Everything is amicable - they will go. They may actually be moving into another property I have. There is no issue with them going.

          I am going to serve the notice on Monday 8 January. So in that box, it I state the date as AFTER 24 March then that would work wouldn’t it (earliest would be 8 March - two months).

          It makes a bit more sense now. It’s saying that AFTER a certain date (being the date of the required notice - usually 2 months) the LL can/will apply to the court for the eviction process, so you (tenant) should be looking to find alternative accommodation.

          Thanks for the replies.

          Comment


            #6
            One more thing actually....
            Do I need to get them to sign a surrender (assuming everything goes smoothly and they don’t dig their heels in - which they won’t) stating that from X date they surrender their tenancy?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by RedHitman View Post
              I'm about to issue my first s21 - Form 6A.

              There is no issue with regards to it being valid; prescribed info EPC/Gas Cert etc etc all above board and the tenants know it's coming - we've been in constant dialogue since November - The house needs renovating and I plan to start it in May).

              I just want to make sure I'm filling it in correctly as there is a sentence that I can't quite get my head around and that is section 2 "You are required to leave the below address after [DATE]"

              I don't understand why it says "after"...? Surely it should say "You are required to leave the below address BY....[DATE]"......?

              What date do I put in there?

              The fixed term of the AST will end on 24 Feb 2018, but I don't need them to leave until April (I'm giving them plenty of notice, it's not a surprise to them).

              They need to leave BY 24 April. They know this; the s21 just confirms it.

              So why does it say after....?
              I raised this point last year:

              Originally posted by JK0 View Post
              Reading a query about the new section 21 form prompted me to have a look at it. Scroll down here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0151646_en.pdf

              I noticed that the form says 'You are required to leave the below address after...'

              I'm sure I read a post recently where a tenant waited years before moving out, and then defended the possession order by saying he did move out after such & such a date. Isn't this defence going to get a lot more common now?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by RedHitman View Post
                One more thing actually....
                Do I need to get them to sign a surrender (assuming everything goes smoothly and they don’t dig their heels in - which they won’t) stating that from X date they surrender their tenancy?
                A deed of surrender need to be about here and now. i.e. They've moved all their possessions out, is handing you the keys, that's when you sign the thing. A contract for a future surrender is merely a contract, if they breach it, they may be liable for breach of contract, but the tenancy would still be validly ongoing after.
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                Comment


                  #9
                  KTC Thanks for that 👍🏼

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm sure I read a post recently where a tenant waited years before moving out, and then defended the possession order by saying he did move out after such & such a date. Isn't this defence going to get a lot more common now?
                    If they had moved out, there wouldn't be any need to defend a possession order.
                    They might have been arguing that the hearing costs should go to the landlord as the hearing was unnecessary, I guess.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                      If they had moved out, there wouldn't be any need to defend a possession order.
                      They might have been arguing that the hearing costs should go to the landlord as the hearing was unnecessary, I guess.
                      If tenant never moves out at all though, he can point out at the possession hearing that any time in the future he does move out, will be after the date on the notice.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by JK0 View Post

                        If tenant never moves out at all though, he can point out at the possession hearing that any time in the future he does move out, will be after the date on the notice.
                        Exactly. The wording is very silly.
                        I can understand it to a certain extent (now) by it saying AFTER this date (if you haven’t gone on your own accord) then the LL will apply to the court.

                        But surely for for everyone’s sanity it would just be easier to say “you are politely asked to leave by X date which is your 2 months notice. If you haven’t vacated by that date then the LL will apply for a court order” etc etc

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I wonder if we need to attach an explanatory letter for tenants whose first language is not legalese?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Always understood this was unwise as it may compromise the notice (whatever notice...). By, IANAL...
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                              Always understood this was unwise as it may compromise the notice (whatever notice...). By, IANAL...
                              I think the bl**dy notice needs compromising!

                              Comment

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